The leaf spring are going to go, and are going to be replaced with Koni coil-overs and Ladder Bars. The car will be mini-tubbed, and the rubber will be a 29x11 slick.
Questions...

My car launches pretty violently with the nitrous and 4-speed.

I was thinking about going with the 29x10.5W Hoosier, which is a stiff sidewall tire. I hear these stiff sidewall tires are good for heavy/hard launching cars. (my car is 3300lbs with me in it)

Would this be a good choice, or would the standard sidewall tire be the better one here?

I know the stiff sidewall tire is heavier. I've read where some cars pick up in the
60ft, but lose a little mph.

I'll probably have to try both to find out what works best on -my- car, but opinions from people with experience with these tires would be nice.

As for the wheel width, I'm undecided between a 10" and 12" rim. The tread width is 11". I was thinking of using a 12" wheel for the slicks, and a 10" for a set of 12.5x15 MT Sportsmans for looks. (about the same measurements as the slicks, maybe a tad smaller) A buddy has the same tire on a Chevy II with a 10" wheel, and they look about right. Any opinions here? Especially on the slicks?

As for a "locater", I'm undecided. The car sees a LOT of street use, and it's curvy
here in West Virginia, so a diagonal link seems a little flimsy. A panhard bar (especially if it's a little short) tends to move the axle from side to side as the suspension moves. The length on my car would be right on the limit for what is recommended by Chris Alston Chassisworks. The panhard bar would be nice for its strength, but for street use, I chose shocks with a 7" travel, so the side to side movement might be excessive...

Has anyone here have any experience with a Watts link? This looks like a good way to get a strong setup that properly locates the axle... It just looks a bit heavy and cumbersome to fabricate.

The springs are 14" 115lb units.

Oh, I'm going to be picking up the power a bit with a new aluminum headed engine as well. Hopefully the car will be done within the next couple years...

Thanks!

The ladder bars are Chris Alston "Pro-Street" units that have polyurethane bushings in the rod ends... to allow a little "give". The front rod end is MASSIVE. It uses 1" threads, and is quite heavy duty looking.

Damn... 10lbs heavier EACH! Hmmm... time for some more research.

Thanks!

Amazing difference. The car drives so much better on the top end. The Goodyears wanted to skate around. White knuckles for sure. The Hoosier is like going for a Sunday drive.

In my case the 60 ft actually slowed down by .01-.02, but it picked up by the 330 and the final ET dropped by .05, mph up by .5 mph.

I think the 60 ft diff is due to these Hoosiers being on the big side. Most drag slicks vary a little in size from set to set. These have 104" rollout, the same as a 33" slick specs. They are supposed to spec at 101".

quote:

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Originally posted by n2oMike:
Thanks guys!

The ladder bars are Chris Alston "Pro-Street" units that have polyurethane bushings in the rod ends... to allow a little "give". The front rod end is MASSIVE. It uses 1" threads, and is quite heavy duty looking.

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A ladder bar by design will not allow the rear tires to move independent of each other....it will bind. Bolt the bars onto the rear end on the floor and try to move the front of one bar indepentent of the other and you'll see what I mean, it doesn't matter what type of end you use on the front....even if it provides a little "give" it's still bound up.

Ladder bars are NOT for street use. If they were made of 2x3 tubing (like Thunderbolts) and use a large rubber or poly bushing and a front bolt of 3/4" or bigger then OK... car will handle like hospital gurney with 4 casters,but it won't break,just bend the rear end housing.

The only streetable way would be a poly bushed 4 link, regular rod ends will wear out with road grit and be very harsh riding (think of sitting on a metal wheeled skateboard riding a cobblestone road ) If using poly bushings the brackets should have the bars spaced wider apart to minimize the inevitable pinion angle change with bushing deflection. This will hook ,be strong and safe The rod ends with poly bushings can be gotten from Art Morrison and others.

I haven't started the project yet, but do have all the parts. I was wanting to keep some resemblance of the back seat... Do you guys think a 4-link would be -that- much of an advantage over this setup? I was thinking the resistance to body roll of the ladder bar might be a good thing.

Why, and -how- would I mount the panhard behind the housing? The bracket that came with the pahnard mounts it on top of the housing. I am aware that it should be as long as possible to minimize side to side movement as the suspension moves up and down.

It's been several months since the bars were ordered. The boxes have been opened, but the parts have never been mocked up or installed. I wonder what kind of a return policy they would have on a trade like this. They sell the 4-link with poly bushings as well.

Just thinkin' out loud... Never built an aftermarket suspension before, but it will be RIGHT when it's finished.

Thanks for any input.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

I -was- just going to leave the rear seat in place and install the ladder bars. Now, it looks like safety might be an issue if I start putting some serious power down to the ground. It looks like the nitrous/4-speed combo would be happier with the 4-link. It seems street manners would also be improved.

What I did NOT want, was a RACE looking car. Right now, my car looks pretty much resto-mod. It looks nice and mild til' it blasts off the line going all crazy with the nitrous on as the 4-speed gets rowed. It's not even that loud with the Edelbrock mufflers.

Maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to keep a hollowed out rear seat intact so it doesn't look like an all out race car. The rest of the interior is still going to be there too... stereo, carpet, heater, wipers, vanity mirror, etc. I like the sleeper look.

The tires will be either 10.5W x 29 Hoosiers with the stiff sidewall, or the regular 11 x 29. Both have the same 11" tread. I'm still torn between a 10" and 12" rim. The street tires will be 29 x 12.5 MT Sportsmans,
(not the Pro's). These are tubeless thick sidewall tires that should survive quite a few burnouts.

Should I install some sort of sway bar for these curvy roads? I know they also let it launch straighter. However, room might be a problem with the panhard bar.

I'll probably be going with the C-A pro-street 4-link with the urethane ends if you guys think it's the right way to go...

Anybody interested in a set of top quality Chris Alston Chassisworks Pro-Street Ladder bars, along with the front cross member for $300, shipping included? These are brand new, and are the best. They have the adjustable turnbuckle at the rear, and the HUGE front rod end. They are urethane bushed. The tech guy at C-A Chassisworks said the boss's son has a nitrous Chevelle running 9.7's with them... They ARE quite strong, and fit under the stock floors of most cars.

For easiest installation, leave the leaf springs and housing ON the car. Install a bar across the top of the wheelhousing arch between the frame rails for the upper shock mount, and another bar ahead between the frame rails for the front ladder bar mount. Install the brackets to the housing, then attach the ladder bars with the old rear suspension still in place... this way it is already all lined up. Remove the old suspension, and you're ready to rock-on!

Thanks for all the input!

Using ladders bars for their anti-roll capabilities is exactly what you don't wanna be doing... its like using the pistons to control valve float instead of stronger valvesprings!

When those things resist roll its because they are binding... travel around a corner with a bump in it and see if ya just can't rip a bracket clean off the housing. The 1" ends are plenty strong, but its gonna be the housing brackets and crossmember brackets that twist the most.

My car bends 9" housings with merry abandon because of the stock Thunderbolt type bars, and i don't try and turn corners or drive on unlevel surfaces.

Major cutting to the quarters would be required for anything larger. I figure with a good suspension and a 29x11 slick, 60ft times should consistently be at least down into the 1.4's. The best it's ever done is 1.43, but that was on a PERFECT track with tons of VHT all over the surface, and all the stars in the right place.

I've been researching ways to make a 4-link work... They eliminate the rear seat, but it looks like that's just how it's going to be. Chris Alston's Chassisworks has the urethane bushed rod ends, but they need to be taken loose to be adjusted... homie don't play dat'! Will the spherical rod ends be fine for street use? I guess they'll make a little more noise, I just hope they don't wear out too quickly. I might also try and install their sway bar. Their stuff can be seen at www.cachassisworks.com

Going to the 4-link is going to involve a lot more abuse of the bank account...

Thanks!

wait till Alex is back... SuperStock rear suspension involves maximum hook without cutting the floorpan. I'm sure he has some early Mustang experience.

I'm sending the Pro-Street ladder bar stuff back to Chris Alston's Chassisworks (at a helluva loss with a 20% resocking fee and shipping) and getting a a 4-link setup.

It's a regular 4-link with 4130 all steel rod ends, complete rear frame kit, anti-roll bar, 7" travel aluminum double adjustable Koni coil overs, etc. I'm a little undecided about how far to tub it, but the tires aren't going to be any larger than 29x11 slicks on 12" wheel for the strip, and MT Sportsmans 12.5x29 (tubeless) on the street on a 10" wheel. I might tub it out a little more than needed in case the car wants a bigger tire in the future.

Who knows when a stroked 351W on nitrous might get the call?

Oh well, bye bye back seat!

The 4-link should work a lot better on the street than the ladder bar, and with the anti-roll bar, shoudn't handle too bad on the street. If I can stuff a long enough panhard bar in there, I'll use one as a locater, if not we'll have to go with a diagonal link.

All this is going to be a few dollars and and a few years down the road. As for next year, I'll probably get the block work done, and stick another engine in there and do the best I can to hook it up with the slapper bars and 9" slicks. It will be fun.

Later!