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Author Topic:   Fluiddampr?
MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 322
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-21-2001 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My motor is in the shop for a rebuild and I am going to get the rotating assembly balanced and was considering purchasing a fluidampr for it. Question is, is it necessary for shop to have the new damper before they try to balance it or can they do it with the stock one for now and I install the new one later? The motor is a street/strip 351C and am up for suggestions if you guys think another brand or model would work better or if you think I should even get one at all? Are they really worth the $$$?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-21-2001 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe a good dampner is worth the money, but I personally like the ATI Super Dampner the best. That is what I run on my race cleveland.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1450
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-21-2001 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. X:
I'll take a stab at an explanation. This is how I believe it works:

There are two ways to do a engine balance job. The shop can do either an "internal" or "external" balance job. The preferred method is to have the engine's rotating assembly (crank/rods/pistons/rings) "internally-balanced". That way the flywheel/flexplate & dampener are not needed & should not have an effect on the balance work. This is assuming you will be using typical aftermarket parts which should be of "zero-balance". OEM flywheels/flexplates & dampeners are not zero-balanced. However, if an engine is "externally-balanced", as most stock motors are, then the flywheel/flexplate & dampener become an extension of the balance work and you must have the correct "balance" in your flywheel/flexplate and dampener for ensuring the balance of the engine isn't mis-matched. If you ever need to change the dampener or flywheel/flexplate during the life of the engine, then it must be of the same "balance" as when first balanced. This is an advantage of building a cruiser motor (not putting your engine over 6K rpms) because you'll likely use the OEM flywheel/flexplate and dampener and can switch them out for another same balance piece if necessary.

So, since you're looking to build a Street/Strip engine, ask your shop to perform an internal balance job for you. However, by providing the shop with your new dampener, flywheel/flexplate would allow them to correct for any error in the new pieces, if they were off a little. So, for the above stated reasons, you for sure don't want to balance your engine using your old dampener (which probably isn't of zero balance), then buy and install a the new one (which probably IS of zero balance), because if you did that, that whole works would be out of balance big time!

Lastly, it's been said that the fluid-style dampener doesn't have as much 'RPM range' as an elastomer-style dampener. So for a street/strip ride that will see some higher rpms (over 6K) at times, don't try to make the 25+ years-old dampener stay together - I'd spend the $$ and go with an elastomer-style dampener, like the ATI unit. Just my 2 cents worth.... Ryan

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1192
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-22-2001 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also like my ATI damper.Its quite a bit lighter than a Fluidamper, also usually cheaper, too

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-22-2001 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:
Mr. X:

Lastly, it's been said that the fluid-style dampener doesn't have as much 'RPM range' as an elastomer-style dampener. So for a street/strip ride that will see some higher rpms (over 6K) at times, don't try to make the 25+ years-old dampener stay together - I'd spend the $$ and go with an elastomer-style dampener, like the ATI unit.


Actually, it's the elastomer type dampeners that have a narrow rpm range. Stock dampeners are elastomer type. These are relatively inexpensive to produce, and can be made fairly lightweight. The Fluidampr is a little heavier and more expensive, but works over the complete rpm range of the engine. It works very well at dampening torsional harmonic vibrations. I've used one on the mustang for 8 years with a stock crank and rods... running deep in the 10's at around 130 on nitrous. I've had zero crank related problems. The main things that turn people away from the Fluidampr is weight and price. It's a little heavier, but it works.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1450
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-22-2001 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, thanks for correcting my rpm range mixup s related to the types of balancers!

Apparently you agreed with the rest of my explanations? Then I got it right! Kool!

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 577
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-22-2001 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I've used Fluidampr for years, All of my FE motors and now my 460 all use Fluidampr.

I ran tons of nitrous through the FE's and used to have alot of trouble with the mains moving around. When I started running a Fluidampr it helped my main cap problem alot....didn't cure it, but it got much better.

I've read alot of stuff that bashes Fluidampr....I've never run an ATI or anything else, but I've been happy with Fluidampr so far and have never experienced any problems whatsoever....in fact, the first time I ran my FE motor with one on it I could feel a difference while driving the car, it smoothed out the whole ride. I thought I was nuts, but when I got back to the pits, Larry told me he could hear that it was happier....maybe we're both nuts...LOL.

A note on balancing....Do not balance your assembly with the Fluidampr on the crank. It has a ring that is suspended in fluid and will not repeat on a balancing machine. They are zero balanced so you can balance the assembly without a damper and then run it. An external balance application, like a 5.0, has a counterweighted hub that the ring bolts to....in this case, you would balance the hub on the assembly without the ring.

I'm not against running a different brand of damper, I just don't like to mess with a good thing when I find something that works for me. I've read claims that one makes more power than the others, but I've never seen these claims from an unbiased source....until I see something from a neutral source, I'll stick with what I know works for me.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 322
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-22-2001 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about the "streetdampr"? This is primarily a street driven car so should I spend the extra $100 for the SFI unit? Are there any quality differences?

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