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Author Topic:   460 block....id# D1VE?
SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-11-2001 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My ignorance is showing. Can someone give me information of a 460 2bolt block with an identification number of D1VE. Is this a mid-70s block and is it a good block for building a racing 514?


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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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Mike_R
Gearhead

Posts: 150
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-11-2001 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_R   Click Here to Email Mike_R     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Russ, Yeah that's a pretty common 429/460 block from the early 70's into the late 70's. It's probably not quite as good as using a D0VE block, but it's still a good block. I've seen several guys use them with .080" overbore. I've used a few for .030" over engines and had real good luck. It might be a good idea to get it sonic tested if you decide to bore .080" over though.

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-11-2001 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

Weclome to M&M! Thanks for the info. I had a stroker 351-C and the crank broke. So I'm not up-to-date on the 460's.

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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Mike_R
Gearhead

Posts: 150
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-11-2001 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_R   Click Here to Email Mike_R     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Russ, I'm new, but I really like this forum. I can see there is alot of knowledge floating around here, so I'll bet you'll be up to date on 460's pretty quickly.

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-11-2001 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SG236,
You may want to think about a main cap girdle. We put a Blue Thunder one on the last 514 we built but have not taken it down to do any checks yet. The guy's last block had major cap walk & a nice size split running all the way to the cam. (normally aspirated on alcohol}
Good luck,
Mark J.

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-11-2001 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,

Thanks for the info and welcome to M&M. Do you race at Montgomery? I was down there last fall for a sunday bracket race.

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1450
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark J:
The 460 block that broke was a 'D1VE' block? How much HP / torque do you estimate your friend was making before it broke?
Ryan

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-11-2001 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ryan,
Yes, 'DIVE' block. Cracked at #2 main across oil passage up to cam. Relatively mild, around 820 H.P. Had to go out & look in scrap pile, can't believe it is actually raining here.

SG236,
Yes, when wife lets me out of the house. We are going up next weekend to run the brackets of the Fun Ford deal & let the old Mustang sing.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1450
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-12-2001 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark J:
Thanks for the info - but I've got more questions.... (although you shouldn't need to get rained on again, LOL)

Any idea as to what RPMs your friend was turning when it broke?

What type of dampener was he using?

Thanks again for sharing your experiences, Ryan

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-12-2001 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ryan,
That 514 had an ATI. Have broke with Fisher(only SFI balancer available for Ford at time) TCI, and ATI. I run ATI. Breaks were not caused by balancer.Got to go pick up wife & kid in Atlanta.
ATI is prefered by most.Fluid damper is supposed to be death to BBF.
Mark J.

[This message has been edited by S/Q 2204 (edited 05-12-2001).]

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4780
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-13-2001 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know in extreme applications Blown Alky Pro Mod (2000+ hp) the blocks crack between the cam and crank and also break main caps ,and this is with the SVO / AR aluminum blocks too. That was solved by going to a 351C sized main bearing which leaves a thicker main cap.

I think once you are breaking the stock blocks like that its time to buy the HD stuff.
820hp is mild?

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 172
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-13-2001 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The blocks we use are just what we can find with a standard bore. We fill the water jackets to the bottom of the water pump holes. Normal machine operations - nothing fancy. Our pistons are .030" over - no worry about ultrasonic testing etc. Only block failures were caused by rods tearing apart - before stroker.

Was happy getting 645HP with C8 heads, thought that was mild - not 850HP (that's a lot). That kind of power would need lots of roller cam and head!

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-13-2001 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom,
I guess that does sound like alot of H.P. But under normal circumstances reliable, with the exception of a stray block or crank here & there The one 514 was the only one that cracked. My old 521 only showed small signs of cap walk, it could have used a girdle. This is the power we are used to people going after & thought this was the case. That is why the girdle came to mind & cast crank horror stories.
After a rod tried to exit our SVO block we now run the standard deck RDI block.
Mark J.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1450
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-14-2001 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark J:
#1) What did you use to fasten down the main caps on your 521 that 'walked the caps'?

#2) Did you have to do any machining to your block/caps to install the Blue Thunder girdle?

#3) You mentioned "Breaks were not caused by balancer", so what do you think was the cause of the breaks?

#4) What is a RDI block?

#5) So how did you & your Stang do at the Fun Ford event?

Thanks again for the insight,
Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-15-2001 02:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ryan,
#1) The cap walk was only very slight. It had bolts in it but put studs in before selling. As you know walking is caused by the cap trying to flex & looking back I don't think the studs would have stopped it. Probably a billet cap or girdle was needed.

#2) Girdle went on easy with supplied hardware.

#3) More H.P. than designed for. My two broke just in front of #4 rod. The other one probably had a flaw in the casting.

#4) Aluminum version of the SVO cast iron block. Capable of 4.625 bore, set up for dry sump, 18 head fastners, roller cam bearings, and a lot lighter. Sold thru Raceparts Distribution Incorporated in N.C.

#5) FFW in Mongomery is next weekend will let you know if I sink or swim.

Did not mean to strike fear in any one about the stock stuff. It will work quite well just keep its limitations in perspective.

F551,
Those aluminum cobra jet heads do good with a touch up & .750 or so cam. Not bad on valve train parts. They realy wake up a 514 & no special intake or strange exhaust flange to worry with.
We are now running the C head 485 [email protected] .800 with around .825 lift & it is easy on train parts.
This is getting fun. Some one to talk BBF stuff to.
Mark J.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-15-2001 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by S/Q 2204:
Ryan,This is getting fun. Some one to talk BBF stuff to.
Mark J.


Here's another place to talk about BBF stuff.

http://network54.com/Forum/85220

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Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-15-2001 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark J.

If I build a stock rod and crank 460 with a good set of heads (2.19/1.76), 1050 dominator, 4.88 gear, and 1.76 Glide in a 2300 Tube Maverick my engine software says it will turn 6.38/106.2 in the 1/8th. Your thoughts?


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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1703
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-15-2001 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey fellas, count me in on all big block talks!

Talking about how much power a block can handle should include information about the RPM that you are making that power at. A 460 that makes 700hp at 6500 will last a lot longer than one making the same power at 8000 don't you agree?

There really is no difference in the D0VE and D1VE blocks.

D = decade = 1970
0 = year = 0 or 1970 and 1 = 1971

All of the passenger car blocks up through 1979 are "supposed" to be the same. The Boss, 4 bolt CJ and heavy truck blocks are all different.

I have heard a ton of stuff about this year or that year being better but I don't believe most of it. Presently I have two blocks, both brand new and totally unused. One is a 1972 block and the other is a 1988 block. The 88 block outweighs the 72 by 2 pounds, they both have the stock bore.

All of these blocks can be setup for 4 bolts caps if you want, and for 820 HP I would think that would be a good idea.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-16-2001 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SG 236,
Current software is generally hard to argue with if true data is inputted. Only thing is the stock rods scare me, even the spot faced ones.
Food for thought: What if you took one of the cranks Tom mentioned being for sale in the 'offsett ground 460 crank' topic and offset ground it to get back close to the 460 stock stroke then bore the block .080 to help unshroud the valves. Add some good heads & you should have a screamer that would last a long time. After market rods in the 6.8 range.

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-16-2001 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,

Thanks. I'm gonna check into getting a good crank and look at the 6.8 rods....

More to come.............

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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Big_blocker
Journeyman

Posts: 50
From: On a rock in the pacific (Hawaii)
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-16-2001 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big_blocker   Click Here to Email Big_blocker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just what I need Any one want to help give tips or ideas on a 429 build up that i plan on doing ? storke it ? Keep stock stroke,etc ? I think i will need a steal crank ether way beacue i will run NOS to get more power if needed. I dont have the #'s from my block but the head #'s are C9VE-A. My first ford buld up want to get 500 HP normaly asperated with compression in the 11's.

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Drink gas haul a$$ American Racing

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4780
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-16-2001 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SG236:
Mark J.

If I build a stock rod and crank 460 with a good set of heads (2.19/1.76), 1050 dominator, 4.88 gear, and 1.76 Glide in a 2300 Tube Maverick my engine software says it will turn 6.38/106.2 in the 1/8th. Your thoughts?



2300 lbs?? I'd sure hope so!! My Fairlane is 800 lbs heavier and runs those numbers with a 454 " FE with 2.19 / 1.73" valves. Maybe the glide slows ya down that extra bunch...if so check out http://www.jericoperformance.com/ for a "normal" tranny

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited 05-16-2001).]

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-17-2001 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom,
I would have expected a little more out of a stroked FE at that weight. One of my old dinosaur buddies still has his old S/S 66R Fairlane that is a left over from his days on the Ford racing team;6.30's at 3,000 + lbs. But then I realize everyone is not running a 16.75:1, 598 alcohol injected, Lenco backed combination like me.
So maybe the guy considers a good set of heads to be reworked factory castings at 10.5:1 or so.
What I was trying to get across (and did not do too good of a job) is that todays software is a good tool to use for comming up with a good combination with out having to actually build the engine to see if out put is what you are after.
One other thing. There is no sound sweeter than an FE running down the track backed up by a 4 speed!
My after work contribution.
Have a good one,
Mark J.

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-17-2001 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Mark,

Tell me more about your car! 16.75-1, 598! Guess I'm just a small time racer!

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-17-2001 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom P,

This engine would be just a little above the stock combination. I ran the 351-C Stroker with all the goodies until the crank broke and block split up the front all the way through the cam hole! I'm new to the "385" series and just want to get back to the track this year. I'm gonna build a 514 or 532 over the summer and fall. Cash flow is the major problem at this point.

Later

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 172
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-17-2001 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok guys - for a 500 - 550hp combination, like what Russ and Big_Blocker are considering, would not a stock bore/stroke engine make that level of power?

We ran high tens in a 3200 lb car a .030" over 460.

Key is - as Mark pointed out - stock rods will not last. That's why we went to the 500, now there are moderately priced replacement rods available. Granted you don't get advantage of better rod/stroke, reduced brg speeds and lighter (more expensive) pistons. But is that an issue at this power level?

So - aftermarket rods, TRW or SpeedPro pistons, cast iron heads with bigger valves and some porting should be an economical way to get that power.

Mark - with the money we have put into cast iron heads we probably should have bought Aluminum a long time ago! But it's all about how much you can afford to put into it. Level you are at is likely a complete tube frame car?

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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SG236
Gearhead

Posts: 359
From: Jasper, TN, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-17-2001 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SG236   Click Here to Email SG236     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fred,

My car is a tube car 2340 lbs. I had Eagle rods in the cleveland and may that is what I should look at now around $500 bucks. I hear the eagle crank is $399.

Has anyone heard over the past year about racers breaking the eagle rods? I remember somwhere over the past year or so a lot of problems with the eagle stuff.

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Russ Hood
70s Maverick S/Pro

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 172
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-17-2001 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Russ - this will be third year on Eagle rods.
After first the caps had moved a little , Eagle recommended - think they were L19 rod bolts (actually cap screws). We got those and so far so good. A friend has Eagle rods in a Super Comp dragster - BBC, he had a rod fail - felt it was bolt related. He upgraded and has had no problems for two years.

Think Eagle ships their rods with junk bolts - maybe you can specify bolt when you order them.

The factory cranks seem pretty tough, 12 years never a crank problem - rods YES.

Those Eagle rods up here are at least $1100, so just imagine what Crowers are.

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-18-2001 02:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SG236,
No, you are not a small time racer I just let mine get out of hand. If you have any questions just ask. Address under my profile should be correct if you want to use it.

F551,
For H.P.in the area of [email protected] 5800 RPM on a 466 you should be able to achieve with 11.0:1, hyd. cam, mildly ported larger valved iron heads.
Yes I do run a chassis car but no feather weight. Running down track 2640 lbs.
Mark J.

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