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Author Topic:   Cam advice please - Alex
Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-27-2001 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex can you reccomend a cam for me (and give me pricing)

Motor is:
377 Clevo, 3.7" stroke, 4.030 bore, 5.7" rod, 4V Closed Ch. heads, 0.040 squish, 1.73 roller rockers, Funnelweb intake, 850dp Holley, 2" 38"long headers 3.5" collectors, 3" exhaust, 4.30 rear, 25.44" tyre, 3500lbs.
Main usage - weekend get from A to B AQAP

Please let me know if you need any more info.

Thanks,
Paul

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69maverick
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-27-2001 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He is going to ask if its auto 0r stick

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GTRocks
Gearhead

Posts: 2096
From: Lusby, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-27-2001 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTRocks   Click Here to Email GTRocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 69maverick:
He is going to ask if its auto 0r stick

Pardon my ignorance, but why does it matter? Curious.

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4637
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 04-27-2001 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It matters a huge deal... with those awful slushboxes you can't just dump the clutch at 7000 to get going,the engine needs to pull hard at the stall speed of that awful donut-ish thing they use

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-27-2001 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's true Tom but we haven't "ever" missed a shift with our slush box .

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4637
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 04-27-2001 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry
I know guys that have!! LOL

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-27-2001 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What was that little blurb that goes along the lines of... real racers race with 4-speeds? Something about driving your own car? There's a bunch of em' that I can't think of.

Combine nitrous and a 4-speed, and you might not be that competitive in serious bracket racing, but the fun factor goes out the roof. WFO clutch dumping nitrous launches are awesome. The driving part is cool too. You're one BUSY guy the whole way down the track!

4bbl Clevelands generally like tight lobe seperation angles. For good advice, you're going to have to include the compression ratio of the engine and stall speed of the converter. Naturally aspirated, you're going to need a fairly loose converter. A good, name brand 8" converter will be required for decent launches. If your engine has around 11:1 compression (a "ballpark" assuming flat-top pistons) something around 245-255 @ 0.050" on the intake, maybe a little more on the exhaust, and a 104-106 lobe seperation would be about right.

Good Luck, and Have Fun!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 1253
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-27-2001 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it goes" REAL RACE CARS HAVE THREE PEDALS "

------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-27-2001 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thinking again, a cam around 242-249 @ 0.050" on the intake would probably be best with your car's weight and a loose converter or 4-Speed... again ASSUMING a c.r. around 11:1. The cam used on the fordmuscle.com dyno chart measures 246 @ 0.050" on the intake... if you want to look at that graph.

For further comparison purposes....
I picked out a cam for a buddies 69 11.2:1 400 small block camaro street/strip car. It has AFR 210cc aluminum heads and 1 7/8" headers with a big intake and 850 double pumper. The car weighs 3300lbs w/o driver and has 3" exhaust. It's cam specs are 249/259 @ 0.050 with around 0.570" lift on both intake and exhaust (using 1.6 intake rockers) and has a 106 degree lobe seperation. The cam is a Lunati #40136.

On a set of 28x10.5 slicks and a 4.10 gear, the car ran 6.9's in the 1/8 mile with no bottle. (equivalent to mid to high 10's in the 1/4 mile). The car has a 9" converter and 60fts in the high 1.5's.

The engine has a WIDE powerband. It does not fall out of its powerband when it shifts. The car pulls HARD the whole way down the track. It is shifted at 6800 rpm.

With a 377 in a 3500lb car, I'd be a little conservative with the cam... especially with an automatic. I'd go with something like I mentioned above with around a 104 lobe seperation for an automatic, or a 106 with a stick. For street, 106 automatic, 108 stick, would be a little cleaner.

A tire diameter of just over 25"? You ARE going to be running slicks, aren't you? Slicks will make more difference than any other modification when trying to go from point A to B ASAP.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-27-2001 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the replies guys, Compression is at 11.89:1 and it is a stick shift. I was running a solid 253?/260? 0.615/0.632 108?. And was happy with that (360lbs/365Hp RW). It was quite streetable with the 4.30 rear (A little hard on the clutch when I had a 3.50) But now I need to get a new cam and was wondering what opinions were out there.

Paul

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4637
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 04-28-2001 02:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paul

Thats a pretty hot cam for the street!

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-28-2001 06:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeh Tom it is pretty hot but not too hot given my gearing etc. I was actually considering going a little larger as the common consensus is that Clevo's like a lot of cam.

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69maverick
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-28-2001 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its pretty hot but not that bad The advertised Is most likely 253?/260? The .632 lift is pretty steep? but the 108 lobe-center is nice! It will make alot of cylinder
pressure. And with a stick it should work great.

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-28-2001 07:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
253?/260? is @ 0.050. Advertised is 300?/305?.

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-30-2001 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex?

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 31026
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 04-30-2001 08:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He's racing in Joliet, Paul.

------------------
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L Disposable Commuter
"Keep your driveway all Ford!"

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-30-2001 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, thanks.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-01-2001 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry for the delay Paul and everyone. Been a bit covered up. OK, now for a camshaft recomendation. I like the 32-239-4 or 294S Comp. 248,248 @.050, 605, 605 lift and a 110 C/L. I would put it in at 108. Great cam with 4.30 gears and a heavy car. About $122 + shipping.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-02-2001 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Alex.

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-03-2001 05:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, after heavy consideration I would like to go with the 306S (unless you're dead against it). Is it the same price? Also can you provide pricing on suitable springs and freight to zip 3168 Australia.

(email me if you wish - [email protected])

Thanks,

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-07-2001 03:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If your'e not interested Alex, let me know and I'll persue another supplier.

Thanks,

Paul

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-07-2001 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Paul, but I just got back in town today. I'll get you your prices and e-mail you directly. Alex

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-08-2001 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, Thanks Alex, Sorry but I did'nt realise you had been out of town. I'm also hoping yoou can help answer the following:

Below are two similar cams. One main difference is the exhaust opening point. What difference will this make. Also how much difference will the LSA make(110 vs 107)given my above combo.

Duration = 264/264 (298/298)
CL = 106/108
inl open 43 BTDC close 75 ABDC
exh open 77 BBDC close 41 ATDC
LSA = 107
overlap = 84
Lift = 0.622/0.622

Duration = 260/260 (306/306)
CL = 106/114
inl open 47 BTDC close 79 ABDC
exh open 87 BBDC close 39 ATDC
LSA = 110
overlap = 86
Lift = 0.640/0.640

Comments welcome from others also

Thanks,

Paul.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-09-2001 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paul, where did you get these numbers? Who is the cam grinder/manufacturer or is this something that you conjured up on your own from the back of a cam cataloge. Also, what kind of block are you going to use again? :0

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Mike_R
Gearhead

Posts: 142
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-09-2001 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_R   Click Here to Email Mike_R     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not much of a cleveland expert, I deal more with the 385 series, but I'm curious about something. The 385 series engines really benefit from having quite a bit more duration on the exhaust side of the cam. Wouldn't the cleveland heads also benefit from this type of grind. Again I'm not a cleveland guy so feel free to slap me upside the head if I'm way off base.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-09-2001 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:

Comments welcome from others also

I already gave my advice... You can see it above, if you're interested. You don't have the compression ratio to pull off 260+ degrees @ 0.050". The engine will be a complete dog below 4500rpm. The 4.56 gear will help, but the car is still 3500lbs. It's going to need more torque. You'd be better off with something smaller. Your old cam would be better than what you are considering.

Just my $0.02... Take it or leave it.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-10-2001 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again guys, I'm leading towards a bigger grind than I had before because what I had before was great, and I guess I'm a victum of the "bigger is better" syndrome. (and a little hard headed)

Thanks Mike, I did take in what you posted earlier. If the general consensus is not to go bigger, I won't.

Alex, the block is a late model Australian one. The first grind is from the same manufacturer as my original cam (Crow cams). The second is out of the Comp Cams catalog (grind #306S).

Also Alex, is it worth my while partially filling the block?

Thanks again,

Paul

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-10-2001 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paul, it is definatly worth filling the block. I am assuming that the block is of the Cleavland variety? I do not reccomend the larger cams at all unless you plan on getting seriously radical with the rest of the combo.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-10-2001 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Alex, I remember you mentioning in an earlier post the "Hard Block" product. Is this name correct, I'll try to source some over here in Aus. Are there any special instructions that I would need to know about that are not supplied with the product??

Thanks,

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 303
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-11-2001 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Alex, I don't know if this will be posted twice, having some computer trouble I remember you mentioning in a previous post the "Hard Block" product. Who distributes this. Is there an agent in Australia? Also, are there any special instructions that I should know about that don't come with the product information.

Yes it is a cleveland block

Thanks,

Paul.

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