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Author Topic:   Frt Coils in '69 Dragracer..?
Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2001 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey - you guys that drag race '69FBs;
Would you dare share with me just what you have under it for front coil springs?
Most everyone uses 90/10 front shocks,OK- but what coils do ya use?
Used & tired 6-cylinder coils?
MOROSO trick front drag coils?
Come on, don't hold out on me......
Thanks, Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2001 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid I actually do have wore out 6 cylinder springs in mine. I had Koni adjustable shocks on it last year, but had one go bad. Plus they were a real pain to change adjustments on at the racetrack. So this year I am going to switch to Hal adjustables. Nothing trick here.

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-17-2001 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Morning Guys

In our 68 we use the Moroso/Competition Engineering Springs with Competition Engineering 3-way shocks (set at 90/10, we hope).

The springs seem to last about 3 seasons then take a "S" shape. We used to break the bottom mount bar on the shocks - now we take the bar mount off the shock and slide a machined steel sleeve about 3" long up the shock tube, reinstall the bar mount and weld the bar/sleeve - now no problem with breakage.

Would like to try HAL shocks - but spent too much money already this winter. What P/N is applicable for the early Mustang? Looked at their site, info is pretty vague - more on Coilovers.

What rear suspension do you guys use? Should look at whole package. We use Cal-Tracs (bottom hole) with the 5-way adjustable Rancho shocks and stock 5 leaf springs. Ranchos set in the middle - nice to just turn the knob!

Car 60 foots at 1.45 average, probably should do better. Interested in Alex's theories ie) what to do with bushings / control arms etc.

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2001 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fred, My car has ladder bars with coil-overs on the rear with Hal single adjustable shocks. The bars are set in the bottom hole. With the high compr motor the car had a 1.35 best for 60' normally around 1.36-1.38, with the little motor best was a 1.38 but it was normally around 1.40-1.42.

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-17-2001 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guess there's nothing wrong with 6 cyl springs!

Where are you buying the Hals?

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2001 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The machine shop I go to has supplier that carries them. I also think that Alex is a HAl dealer.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2001 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Again Guys,
Thanks for sharing your setup and opinions.

KV: Are your 6-cyl coils cut or full length?

Fred: Good info on the pointers with the possible shock bottom mount bar breakage. Maybe next year when the BB is in, I'll have to make a note to watch for that on mine...

Since I'll be running the SB yet this season, I'd like to get better weight transfer and maybe better times before it's pulled out.

In the front now is a used set of Gabriel (3-position) ProShockers set @ 90/10 and the OE 351W coils, but with a full coil cut off (By doing so, it produced a nice 1" rake with the 306" & Toploader installed; but from watching videos of my launches - there is virtually no weight transfer going on at 'launch time').

My rear suspension is comprised of 2-yr-old Magna 5-leafs with std. eyes, weld-in subframe connectors, and tired Sears adjustable shocks to M/T 9" DOT slicks. My best Y2K 60ft = 1.76; I don't know how heavy the rig is...

I've read alot of good stuff on the Cal-Tracs, so I'm in the process of obtaining the necessary heim joints and chromoly tubing to build a set of Clone "Kal-Tracs" and I'll have the 5-way Rancho shocks (recommended PN#9204) both on the car by opening day I'm hoping they'll help.

So guys -- Would you recommend that I change out my cut 351W front coils for some 6-cyl coils or MOROSO or CE coils? Will that help me to get better weight transfer?

Thanks again for your imput,,, Ryan

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2001 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since i didn't install them , they were in the car when I bought it, I would say they are full length. The front of the car is pretty "soft" when you push on it.
I had Moroso springs on my Granada when I raced it, and we had to cut a coil and a half off to get the nose back down to reasonable ride height. They worked good, but I decided on this car to stick with what was there unless it proved it wouldn't work.
As far as what I think you should do, I don't know. I actually had to limit my front suspension travel, but my car being tubbed is a completley different critter.

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DARRELL
Journeyman

Posts: 4
From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-17-2001 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DARRELL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good day gentlemen, First post to M&M hope it is successful, anyway I run 69 coupe 351C,C4 car with ladder bar coil over in rear. Front springs are moroso, with coil removed for desired ride height. I installed HAL stocker stars for 69 camaro, as mustangs are not available. Installed the shocks upside down. The bottoms mounts for camaro are the same as the mustang top mounts. Had to clearance the mounting caps a little to allow room for the adjusting knobs. Removed the bottom mounts from the old competition engineering shocks (wasn't hard since one bottom mount was broke, due to to much seperation.)and adapted them to the HAL's. Works great. Nice to adjust the shocks from the top, instead of below. Built adjustable front limiter straps to tie the car down. On good tracks used to pull monster wheel stands, then bounce hard a few time before it settled down. The adjustable shocks and limiters brought the 60 ft. from 1.48-1.50 to 1.41-1.42. Made the changes with only couple races left last year, looking forward to playing with adjustments this season. Glad I found this forum,not tomany people to discuss Ford Racing in my part of the woods.

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-17-2001 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome Darrell! There's a lot of everything at this site!

Ryan - looks like either 6 cyl or "trick" springs will work. With the BB we didn't have to cut the CE springs to get a aceptable ride height. They sure pop all that weight up fast.

Have had good luck with the Cal-tracs, have to change springs to use the top hole, as there is a bump on the leaf which hits the bar. Calvert recomends that for hardest hit.
Might do that for this season.

How were you guys limiting the front? For a while we ran a 3/16" cable down the center of the spring to the lower control arm, the other end was secured to a turnbuckle on a bracket fastened to the hood hinge bolt holes. Was Ok but cable would slip. Then tried with a bar under the upper control arm - not so good. Finally we fixed the shocks so they wouldn't break.

What's Alex's take on all this?

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2001 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I welded a bracket under my upper control arm to use rubber bumbers in. That way I could change the amount of limit. I used soft rubber last year and didn't really like the way it stopped the suspension, too soft, I am going to replace the rubber with energy suspension bumb stops this year for a harder, more controled limit.

[This message has been edited by kid vishus (edited 02-18-2001).]

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-18-2001 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 69 fastback has the stock 302 2V springs and thye seem to be just about right. Front shocks are the 3 way Comp Engineering set at 90/10. The shocks are not the best in the world. Gonna make do for now though. Next winter's project will be am MII front end.

The rear is double adjustable ladder bars with Strange coil-overs and 110 lb springs. I used to run the Cal-Tracs and they worked great. But they were all or nothing. On a well prepped track it would pick the wheels up 12" every time. But on a marginal track it would just blow the tires away (28X10 Hoosiers). Also ran the Rancho shocks.

Went to the ladder bars and big tires and only gained .10 but it's deadly consistent now.

Later

David Cole

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-18-2001 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fred - ...What do ya figure's up with that "bump on the leaf"..? Mine have that bump too! Do you suppose it is some sort of alignment pin or rivet? I can't see why it needs to be there...I've got half a mind to simply grind the bugger offa there!!

From the sounds of it, I'll be looking to round up a set of 6cyl or the 'trick' springs for up front....IF IT EVER WARMS UP OUTSIDE!!
...No comments from Alex, Hmmmmm....

Thanks guys for all you help again!
Ryan

[This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 02-18-2001).]

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DARRELL
Journeyman

Posts: 4
From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-18-2001 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DARRELL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Fred

We tie the front down with cable attached to the lower control arm. The other end is attached to aluminum strip with holes drilled on 1" centers for 5". We then drilled and mounted two pieces of light angle on the skirt that covers the coil springs. We insert the aluminum strip between the two brackets an pin at desired setting. Any one else using different technique.

Thanks, Darrell

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4812
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 02-20-2001 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My car isn't exactly a Mustang but same thing applies... the stock 6 banger springs are used with Comp Eng 3 ways set on 90/10, no limiters ,in fact the shocks are longer than stock to increase travel an inch.

------------------
64 T-Boltish Fairlane 427 HR 4spd 10.05 at 133.7 so far ... arrgh ,so close!!

another 64Fairlane project 428 4spd
53 F350 ramptruck 428 4spd
88 Ranger 5.0 5speed
'bout half of a 67 Mustang FB was a 390 :-(

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-20-2001 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nothing can beat the fine tune adjustability of the HAL shocks. The best front spring that you can use is a 6 cylinder A/C front spring. The Moroso is just throwing your money away unless you have an FE.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-20-2001 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Call me dense,,,, OK, (it's been a long day)

Alex,
Is your FE exception based on the increased weight of it vs. a SB? If that's the case & I'm understanding you, you'd recommend the 6cyl A/C coils with a SB; but if a BB was slipped in -like a FE or a 460 (even with lots of aluminum stuff - it's still heavier than a SB), you'd recommend going with the MOROSO coils, am I right?
Thanks again for your help & patience!
Ryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming...

[This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 02-21-2001).]

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-21-2001 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lot's of good ideas on the limiters, may have to look at it again!

Ryan - I think those bumps may be depressions on the other side of the leaf to locate the rubber isolater strips between the leafs. I'd have a real good look before grinding. Might pull our springs out depending on time and money - I think Alex likes the fibreglass ones.

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-21-2001 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fred,
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are bumps you're referring to within a few inches of the leaf end and about the diameter of a quarter? If so, I believe you're right, those are as you describe - locating depressions. What I've got on my Magna 5-leafs are about the dia. of a dime in the center of the leaf and maybe a foot away from the leaf end...maybe I'd better go take another look at them before I say any more...

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-21-2001 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ryan, the Moroso springs were engineered for a 69-70 full dress 428 all iron CJ. They were designed for stock and superstock eliminator in the early 70's. Rules were different then and the cars were all very nose heavy.(battery up front, alternator,horns, heavy wheels, etc.) I would ONLY use them in a 428 stocker application. They are way too tall for a lighter 460, or even a modern 428 SS car.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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