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Author Topic:   New Scoop
Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-01-2001 09:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just got my new scoop for my race car. It's a reproduction Boss 429 scoop from Crites.

Happy to say that this thing appears to be of excellent quality. Ready to paint and bolt on. It's contoured like the original so it will bolt on my factory steel hood (glass hood to come later when budget allows)
Only cost $69 + shipping.

I needed something for hood clearance. My car has the orignal Mach 1 scoop / non functional. Planning on removing it and cutting a hole for my aircleaner. I have a Victor Jr intake and modified 750 Holley on my 383W and I'm sure I'll pick up some power by being able to run a spacer under the carb. As it is now: Motorsport 13" drop base air cleaner w 13 X 2 1/8" K & N filter. I have 1/4" between the hood and air cleaner. Even had to remove the air cleaner stud/ wingnut and replace it with a bolt. The hole in the hood will cure that. I didn't want to go with a big ole pro-stock style scoop and I'm not partial to cowl hoods ( ok for some, just not me). The Boss 9 scoop will fit the bill nicely I think.

2 questions:

Does anyone know the size of the hole in an original Boss 429 hood? I know the orignal had a vac operated mechanisn in the scoop to open it. Can't do that, but would like to make the hole look right.

What would be the best spacer for between my intake and carb. 1"? 2"? I have an open 1" spacer that I used to run on my old Torquer II intake. It made a big diff on that intake.

Later,

David Cole

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-01-2001 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know about the hole, and the spacer will more than likely be a trial and error type thing, although I would try the 1" first. But the real reason for my response is this, on my other car, a drop base air cleaner slowed the car down almost a tenth. Now with my cowl induction hood, I don't run any air filter, just seal the carb to the hood and run it.
If you have room, I would swap the cleaner base for a flat one and put a taller filter on it, and it should pick up.

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1210
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-02-2001 02:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave, I know what you mean about the cowl type hoods. They don`t do a thing for me, but for some reason they seem to be all the rage these days. Maybe its the Chevy heritage, I don`t know. The Boss 429 scoop along with the 71 72 Comet GT, 69-70 Cougar scoop (very similar style) have always been favorites with me. My buddy recently sold his 70 Boss 429 Mustang, & I believe the hole was an oval shape, wider than long.
P.S. I`ve had 4 69-70 shaker scoop equiped Mustangs, cool scoops, but now the scoop set up costs more than I paid for a complete 428 CJ Mach 1 20 years ago!!!!!

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1210
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-02-2001 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way Dave, the shaker scoops, the Fairlane Ram Air scoops that look like your Mach1 scoop, & the 71-73 NACA duct Mustang scoops were vacumn controlled, the BOSS 429 scoop was operated by a cable with the knob located next to the manual choke knob.

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4812
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 02-02-2001 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rory

ahhh....so thats what that small bracket with the two cables was over at Garys!! I was thinking its kinda crude to be right side air duct for heater... duh!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-02-2001 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I got my 70, it had a Boss '9 scoop init. The previous owners had put a round hole in the hood, and it sure doesn't look right to me. I had to prop the flap in mine open, without the cable on it, it was constantly rattling around.
I put a small cowl induction on my race car ( 2 1/2"), not for the chevy heritage, but becouse I did not want a big scoop, or a forward facing scoop and I really don't like the Boss scoop. I just needed a little more room and that fit the bill, plus I get a lot of people that compliment it and think that it looks really good.

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F551
Gearhead

Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-02-2001 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551   Click Here to Email F551     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow - didn't thinkthat Boss scoop could be had that cheap! How tall is the repro?

Dave: my brothers 383W combo last year - Performer RPM heads (ported) with the Victor Jr. and 850 Holley worked best with a 1" open spacer on bottom with a 1" 4 hole spacer on top. 500 HP on dyno.

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-02-2001 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave,
I look forward to seeing new pic's of your race-ride with the new scoop! I want to put a Boss'9 scoop on my Mach I also, so it's good to know that the Crites piece is a good piece.

Regarding the hood cutout, in a Osborn copy of a FoMoCo "Assembly Manual" I have, it depicts an opening with a 'cross' across the opening - kinda like cutting a small pie into four pieces and having the pieces separated about 0.75 inches. The manual doesn't provide dimensional measurements for the pie sections nor am I sure if they were cut out that way...

Regarding the two types of spacer openings, if my memory is serving me correctly, the open spacer is used when your setup could benefit from increased plenum volume whereas the 4-hole spacer is used when you're looking to increase the velocity of the intake charge. Thus, most open spacers are used in high RPM applications and 4-holers are used in lower RPM or street applications.
Good Luck!!
Later, Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-02-2001 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The scoop measures 22" wide X 27" long X 3" tall. These are at the widest points. It has a slight taper on the ends. The 3" tall compares to 1 3/4" for my factory Mach 1 scoop. I friend of mine with a 69 w/460 kept his Mach I scoop and made it functional. But he doesn't run a filter. I'm paranoid. I will not run without one. I have done back to back runs with one and without on my car. No change either way. I think it might be limited just by the fact that the carb is so close to the hood. Before I cut the choke horn off it was only 1" from the hood. The Mach 1 scoop is not wide enough to make it functional and keep my filter.

With the increased room I will run a taller filer to get the breather lid away from the carb. Will go to at least a 13 X 4, maybe 13 X 5.

I will use the 1" open spacer to start and can borrow a 2" for a test n tune night. Would be nice to pick up some extra power. On a dyno right now I figure it makes about 580 hp or so. That's based on a computer model. The computer has predicted my best et to within .02 so I figure it is fairly close when it says 580 hp. As is said, I used to run a Torquer II intake (bought way back before the Vic Jr was available). It had a lot of port work done to it. The runners were the same size as the ones on my Vic Jr. I ran it with the spacer. When I put the Vic Jr on without the spacer there was no change at all!. Either the spacer really helped the old intake or going without really hurts the new one.

I have seen the hoods with the "pie shapes", some were on cars that didn't have a functional scoop, mine doesn't. Anybody have any links to any online pics of Boss 429's?

When I get it painted and installed I will get a pic online. Crites has a website, but they don't have a pic of the scoop. But they also list a Cougar Elimnator scoop that would be cool also. Take a look here:
http://www.critesrestoration.com/mustang.htm

It looks similar to the scoop carried by Unlimited Products here:
http://www.up22.com/mustang67.htm#PR-63, but mine doesn't have an internal flange to bolt it down. It has studs that are set into the fiberglass just like a Mach 1 scoop. It doesn't have a flap or anything like an original, It's open. But I sorta like the look of a chrome breather sticking up inside an open scoop.

Later,

David Cole

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1210
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-03-2001 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Boss 429 did NOT use the 4 "pie wedge" openings, the only cars I ever seen with the 4 triangles were 69 Mustangs & Fairlane/Torino`s with the scoop style that non Ram Air Mach 1`s came with. Usually with a non functional scoop up top & sound deadner mat underneath the hood, the openings were visable after the soundeadner fell off or was removed. To the best of my knowledge, (based on having owned 2 "R" code 428 Ram Air Fairlane COBRA`s, the Ram Air cars used an oval hole, & the triangles were non functional, with the scoop having a plug to block the scoop opening.Boss 429`s had a large oval hole under the scoop.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-04-2001 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave,
FYI: There's a fairly impressive comparison article for different carb spacers using different intakes in the March '01 CarCraft. They also compare the combination spacers...

What are the OEM BOSS '9 scoop dimensions? The reason I ask is that I noticed Unlimited Products offer two BOSS-style scoops and they each have different dimensions; and neither are the dimensions you posted of your Crites scoop.... ? :/
Later,, Ryan
Ryan

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-04-2001 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I saw the article. Just got the mag yesterday. It suprising that the Vic Jr intake without a spacer was the highest peak hp. It was down on torque down low though. Guess that explains something about my car. The 60 ft is not that great, but it has a good top end run. I usually mph with cars that are .10-.12 quicker overall and .05-.07 quicker in the 60 ft.

I looked at the dimensions of the UP scoops. There are a good bit larger. The people at Crites said mine is the factory dimensions. It sure looks right. I think the giveaway on the UP scoops is the height. 5" tall. I have seen a few Boss 429's and the factory scoop is closer to 3" than 5".

Later,

David Cole

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-05-2001 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave,
Thanks for 'clearing up my fog' on the BOSS '9 scoop dimensions...

Regarding the spacers again - I think the comparison is interesting, but unless you are running the exact same engine, displacement, cam, etc.; any one of the spacers will more than likely perform differently for your particular combination. Once again, testing & more testing is needed to zero in a particular combination and what IT NEEDS or not.
Later, Ryan

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