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Author
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Topic: Tubes or not?
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Just Jim
Gearhead Posts: 373
From: So Cal
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 12:19 PM
  
Is it necessary to run tubes in drag slicks?The side wall says "tube type",but I have seen them run with and without tubes.Is there any advantage to running tubeless other than it's cheaper and you don't need rim screws?------------------
"Just Falcon Around"
1962 Falcon 351W
1958 Morris Minor 289
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Bracketracer
Journeyman Posts: 53
From: Sakatoon Sask; Canada
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-14-2001 01:33 PM
Without screws I run Hoosier Quicktimes, no tubes aswell. 16.5 lbs of air,, and have no problems. The Maverick has a best 1.578 60foot time, with it normally around 1.610. If I needed to lower the pressure in the tires, I would think of tubes/screws.
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Big Block Capri
Gearhead Posts: 110
From: Essex, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 02:43 PM
Jim,
We've ben running 14X32 MTs at 10 1/2 psi with upper 1.4 60 ft. times without tubes for the past 3 seasons. We do, however, use rim screws. We haven't had one bit of a problem plus it removes a LOT of rotating weight, which can prove to be a real plus, especially if your combination is a little shy in the torque department.------------------
Paul Garant
"No replacement for displacement."
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Bracketracer
Journeyman Posts: 53
From: Sakatoon Sask; Canada
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-14-2001 03:27 PM
BigBlock; never thought of putting "the screws" to mine. But I may just have to do that. I work the center of my tires hard, and would like to drop the pressure alittle more, not for traction, but for better, more even wear. Thanks for the advice
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 607
From: Stanton, Michigan
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 03:49 PM
Jim,
Last year at the Northern Nationals, I stopped at the M/T sales & service semi trailer/booth and ask that very same question. The fella told me that, yep, that's what it says on the tire, but that nearly no one runs tubes because of the reason BB-Capri mentioned - a lot less rotating weight. The fella said the only draw back to running without tubes was that they usually will leak down some between weekends. Since typically the pressure in the rear slicks is monitored closely anyway, that isn't a problem for most folks....
Regarding rim screws; I don't believe that if you run tubes that you won't need rim screws. The rim screws are necessary if you are putting enough "bite" to the slicks to turn them on the rims. In fact, if you ARE using tubes, they provide you an easy & quick way to determine if you NEED rim screws,,, How? by checking the valve stems after a pass or two - if the stems are twisting or being pulled at the rim hole the it's a clear sign that the tires are turning slightly on the rim and need to be secured via rim screws. If they are staying straight up, then the tires probably don't need to be screwed down.
For more info on both of these subjects check out: www.mickeythompsontires.com/damfaq.html
Good Luck !! Ryan  ------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 11493
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2001 04:20 PM
We have been "tubeless" since 1996 on the recomendation of then Goodyear racing field engineer/director John Slikerveer. It's definatly quicker without tubes and much easier to balance. We have always run screws on MM, but not Tony's Capri. This year on the recomendation of Hoooooosier we went "screwless". We have had not problems of any kind with either car, with radial or biased ply slicks. The wheels are better and the tires are better these days and bead slippage is all but non-existant. The leakage that Ryan reffered to is VERY prevalent with all makes. Some worse than others. They do not leak from the bead, but from the sidewall itself. They are so poros that you can almost see the air leak out. The recomended fix is to coat the inside of both sidewalls with dish washing detergent prior to mounting. This actually works very well and you can watch the soap bubbles appear when you air up the tires as they seal up. My advice is no tubes with slicks unless they are over 10 years old. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 1267
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 04:41 PM
alex, as you know i just got 26x9x15 hoosiers. i plan to run them tubeless, what air pressure should i start with? 2900lb car 1.66 60ft. did you get the junk carbs yet?
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Just Jim
Gearhead Posts: 373
From: So Cal
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 08:44 PM
Thanks for the info guys.When I get the new Hoosiers I will mount them on my state of the art (for 1969)slotted dish mags without rim screws or tubes.The ET Streets on the Falcon have tubes but no rim screws.I have had no problems at 15psi,but any less might spin the tubes.I like the fact that it doesn't leak air with the tubes.The ET Drags on the Morris have tubes and rim screws,but I run less air in them.I'll try the new tires without the screws or tubes.Neither car cuts better than 1.65 60 foots,most of the time in the mid 1.70's. [This message has been edited by Just Jim (edited 01-14-2001).]
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Mark T 7724
Journeyman Posts: 51
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 09:30 PM
I think you have just laid out a New variable for us Jim, Newer Racing wheels have a different bead design than even older "Racing" wheels let alone street wheels. While I went away from screws because of my new Bogart Wheels they still turn on the rim, So I have to have them balanced more often but this doesn't mean that you won't need screws on an older set of wheels.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 09:44 PM
Jim FWIW,We're running tubeless with the M/T et streets on steel wheels (mid '70s t-bird) w/o screws. Only down to 14 psi so far and the 60'ers are only mid 1.8s. They do loose about 1 psi per week, or less. SteveW
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Just Jim
Gearhead Posts: 373
From: So Cal
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 01-14-2001 11:36 PM
Mark,the way your car leaves with the wheels up in the air and killer 60 foots, it's no suprise that the tires turn on the rims.  Steve,I'm lazy and haven't checked the air in the Falcon tires since I last raced/drove it in September.None of the tires look flat.  ------------------
"Just Falcon Around"
1962 Falcon 351W
1958 Morris Minor 289
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Mark T 7724
Journeyman Posts: 51
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-15-2001 12:57 AM
Project "65 Mustang Fastback" will cover most of this. "Stay Tuned"
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-15-2001 01:52 AM
I didnt wanna "screw up" my rims with screws  I run the tubes since my tires leaked about 1/2 of the air out in a day when i tried without. They can be sealed tho.
I run my 10.5 x 29.5 Firestones at 9psi on a 10" Alumastar rim with no problems at all. 1.36 best 60ft time
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 557
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-15-2001 02:49 AM
On my Fairmont drag car, I run my slicks tubeless for a couple of reasons.First tubes for my 14x32`s weigh about 10lbs each (rotating weight). Secondly with tubes, I would balance the tires, & after a while I would notice a slight vibration,progressivly getting worse & worse. I would rebalance the tires & they would be WAY off balance.Let the air out & shake the tire up&down. What I think was happening was the tubes were shifting inside the tire, upsetting the balance.Tossed the tubes, end of problem.One of my slicks loses 1/2lb per day, other side 2lbs per day.Put the car on jack stands between races,keep an air tank handy at the track.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 607
From: Stanton, Michigan
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-15-2001 10:32 AM
On another thread there was some discussion on tire-makers who offer stiff side-wall slicks designed for stick-shifted cars and the lack of some sizes.
Although there seems to be some issues with balance and weight with running tubes, would the addition of an inner tube "stiffen" up a non-stiff side-wall slick? If so, that may be a fix of sorts for those folk who run a stick and can't get a stiff side-wall slick in the size they'd prefer... Does that make sense? Ryan ------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D
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