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Author
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Topic: Vapors 351C Intake
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-01-2001 07:28 PM
   
This is interesting...
http://www.pim.net/ausman.html ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Webmaster -- MCA # 47773
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-02-2001 05:23 PM
OOHH OHHHHH OHHHHHH I just ordered one. cool..... It's even for the 2v heads....
just keep repeating..it's only money..it's only money ....I even suprise myself sometimes.... thanks for the link Steve
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-02-2001 06:47 PM
Really? Cool!They have them for both 2V and 4V, right? I was wondering, is that price quoted US or Aussie dollars? ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Webmaster -- MCA # 47773
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-02-2001 07:03 PM
yup, for both 2v and 4v and the price is US. He said he thoght they had a 4v intake that was polished. But I got one for the 2v motor in the racecar. Should work better than the Offy I've been using....I hope.... for $550 it better.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-02-2001 09:50 PM
A little pricy, but very impressive. It looks just like the new Edelbrock Super Victor for the 289-302, but obviously for a 351C.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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DutchD58
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: West Milton, OH
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-03-2001 09:12 AM
Hey, Kid,
I'd be interested if that's the same manifold that Terry Parker (Australia) manufactures and markets. I saw a post he made at one of the other forums regarding this same (?) piece. Looks wicked as hell. He just never states what the power band of the thing is. Also, when you look real close at the pictures (top view), someone airbrushed out the lettering on top of the front runner. You can catch a glimpse of something in a couple of the other shots, but just the edge of some lettering or a logo. Any idea what it says (like it makes a difference, I know). Just curious.Kevin
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 495
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 01-03-2001 10:08 AM
No, it's not the same intake as Terry Parker's Funnelwebs. Terry makes a 2V version and a 4V version that's used with his port inserts. The port inserts raise the floor and narrow the port. There are some old pictures of the intakes at: http://www.PanteraPlace.com/Pantera%20Pics/Manifold4a.jpg
and http://www.PanteraPlace.com/Pantera%20Pics/Manifold3a.jpg
I have some better pictures of the intakes and 2V versus 4V heads with port inserts but haven't gotten around to posting them yet. Terry Parker can be reached at [email protected] and says he will have dyno results versus a Strip Dominator and a Weiand Xcelerator 2V soon. A friend has his Blue Thunder up ffor sale and will be importing one of these soon.The Vapors intake comes in a 2V port size which can be run on a 4V head. The main reason it's so expensive is it is being sold by PIM. They cater to the Pantera crowd and most of there stuff is overpriced, IMO. Check out their price of $700 for a pair of bare of Aussie 2V heads. The going price is $300. Right now Aussie currency is at an all time low compared to the U.S. dollar so importing should be relatively cheap. Dan Jones
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-03-2001 04:19 PM
I should be able to tell you Monday at the latest what it says on the runner. The guy I talked to said that there was enuff meat in the ports to open up the 2v intake for 4v heads. I am more concerned though with getting a little more current technology for my 2v race motor. I'm sure I paid too much, but when I decide I want something, I get it(dumb like that). (can't spell either) [This message has been edited by kid vishus (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-03-2001 05:09 PM
I'm sorry, but I have been a high priced ginea pig too many times over the years. I love to pioneer products for manufacturers, but not at my expense. You might say that I lost my sense of adventure, but that's not the case at all. With my six figure income gone I am not in a financial position to test the "trick of the week" products anymore. I will wait and see Bobs take on this intake when he gets it. He lives close enough that I might even take a ride out to look at it. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-03-2001 09:46 PM
I'm usually pretty carefull about where I spend my money so I don't get burned by the trick of the week. But this was one time when I knew that I needed a better piece and am hoping that this is it. I can almost always talk myself out of something, but I didn't even try this time.
Kevin,
I used to go to that board a lot, but got tired real quick of their 5.0 this and that. I think I know who that guy is that ported those heads too. If it's who I think it is, he's friends with the guy who got me started doing this(porting), and still helps me when I get stuck. No, I never asked him what the rpm range was, must not have been thinking right, (that's what my wife says anyway..."you payed how much for a WHAT!!??!!")
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-08-2001 03:23 PM
OH YEAH, First of all, it says Active on the runner. There is a little casting flash inside, but less than I normally see in a new intake. Carb pad height is right at 6 1/2". Lots of meat in the runners to open them up to match the heads. I hope it works as good as it looks cuzz it's cool as he!!.
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 495
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 01-08-2001 04:36 PM
The new images of Terry Parker's Funnelweb intakes are up at: http://www.panteraplace.com/page35.htm
Notice the port stuffers used with the 4V version. A friend is going to get one and says the price is $350. He plans to dyno test it and I'll probably provide a Strip Dominator to test against.Dan Jones
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-18-2001 01:46 AM
Hey guys I have one of Terrys manifolds (4V) on my Clevo. I'm getting it dynoed next week (chassis dyno). I'll fill you in on numbers and setup then.Paul
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-23-2001 09:54 PM
Cool Paul.  I'll be very interested. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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DutchD58
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: West Milton, OH
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-24-2001 02:13 PM
Paul, can't wait to hear how it goes for you! I'll be really interested in what the powerband and curves look like. Also, I may have missed it somewhere along the way, but what are the specs on your motor? Are you running yours with the port stuffers? Good luck,
Kevin
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DutchD58
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: West Milton, OH
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-24-2001 02:22 PM
Hey, Kid....! What's the latest on YOUR new intake? Had a chance to swap it out yet, or are you gonna make us wait for warmer weather? Just itchin' to hear somethin'.Kevin
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-24-2001 04:48 PM
It's sitting on that the other end of the bench, waiting for me to get done porting the heads so I can start to put a motor back together. It will be the intake that goes on, and unless it moves the powerband way up there, it will stay on all year.It sure is PURTY though... i can;t believe I said that.... 
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 4812
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-24-2001 09:33 PM
Hey , ya learn something new every day ... not that cared much about 400's to start with , but this is interesting..."The 400 FMX block is a special version of the standard Ford 400 block. What makes it different is that most 400?s have the standard Ford big block (370/429/460) bellhousing bolt pattern and a unique motor mount pattern. However, in 1973 only, Ford produced a special version of the 400 with a small block bellhousing bolt pattern and dual motor mounts. "
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-25-2001 05:26 AM
I am somewhat dissapointed, and a little dismayed. Went on the dyno this morning and didn't get the results I expected. Firstly
(and foremostly) The power levelled of at 5800rpm and stayed at the same level until just under 7000rpm?? a dead straight line. What would cause this?? there was a slight rattle as well, but only in this range.
(11.9:1, av gas, 14 initial, 24 mech, no vac) varying the timing changed the low end power slightly but didnt affect the top end. I wasn't happy with the session either as after a couple of hours the ambient temperature was right up there and the place was full of fumes (s##t extraction system).
We started with 360hp and ended up with 347hp. To make things worse on the way home I didn't get the usual break in traction through second at ~4500rpm. I was up in the air as to whether to tune this thing myself or get it dynoed. I've now decided to do it myself.Hit me with questions so I can figure out why my engine which I built believing would peak around 6800-7000 flattens at 5800. Torque peaked at 5600rpm, 1580lbs (what's the conversion to foot lbs?). Some specs:
377 cleveland
4V CC heads - bowl work
inlet tounges
exhaust tounges Terry Parker manifold - port matched
850dp Holley 2" spacer
2" extractors 3" collectors twin 2.5" exhaust dynomax ultraflow mufflers
253/260 @ 0.050, 0.615/0.632, 108 LC Thanks, Paul
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-25-2001 07:37 AM
Here's my guess:inlet tounges
exhaust tounges I wouldn't expect top end power with port restrictions. ------------------
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L Disposable Commuter
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 495
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 01-25-2001 10:46 AM
"The 400 FMX block is a special version of the standard Ford 400 block.
What makes it different is that most 400?s have the standard Ford big
block (370/429/460) bellhousing bolt pattern and a unique motor mount
pattern. However, in 1973 only, Ford produced a special version of the
400 with a small block bellhousing bolt pattern and dual motor mounts." The 400 with small block pattern is real. I have one, as does a friend.
My friend recently had his sonic tested and it has very thick walls,
3/8" in spots. He's using it as the basis of a 430+ cubic inch stroker
using an offset ground 400 crank and long slant six Mopar rods. It will
go into a customer's Pantera and be topped off with independent runner
induction. Dan Jones
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-25-2001 02:18 PM
Oh my GOD! Port plates? Well, if anyone can ever show me documentation that they really work, I would still have to see it on a car in person myself. I have done back to back testing at the track with them as most of you know and lost ET and MPH. Loose the port plates and you should make aobut 7 to 8 % more power overall. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-25-2001 02:21 PM
By the way Dan, that block was the basis for my 404 inch Cleveland in the mid 70's. I had no difficulties with 13 to 1 + compression and 7500+ RPM. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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jkilroy
Gearhead Posts: 1719
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-25-2001 04:27 PM
I will concur with the port restriction idea. Sounds like you tapped out your induction system. Did you get a vacuum reading on the motor as it was running. I would be interested to see what it was at 5800 and above.------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-25-2001 05:36 PM
Who says you guys jump to conclusions
The size of the ports are actually larger than 2V's. Can a 2V port make power above 5800rpm? According to the math the inlets would still make peak torque at over 6000rpm. The power does'nt drop off. It stays at the same level from 5800 to nearly 7000. Is this a sign of restriction or could some other problem be the cause. There is the rattle as well. Could there be an ignition problem?Paul
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-25-2001 05:49 PM
Also, Terry Parkers 4V manifold is designed to run with his port restrictors. Material needs to be taken from the top of the port in the head, to match up with the manifold whether plates are used or not.
i.e. you commit your heads to the manifold.I initially did not want to use port plates but not knowing the above, and spending A$650 on the manifold was swayed into doing so. Given the amount of work, and resulting size of the port (3.36sqin) compared to a 4V (3.8insq) and 2V (2.7insq). I believe I should still make power above 6000 rpm. Paul
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-25-2001 05:57 PM
A 2.5" exhaust is not up to that engine either. Drop the exhaust and run open headers and see what happens. THIS is probably the main bottleneck in the system... and the easiest to check! You should also check for easy things as well, like a 4bbl that is not opening up.Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 217
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-25-2001 06:35 PM
The rattle would bother me! Any chance you could find some real racing fuel instead of the av-gas? Hope you figure it out! Roger
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-25-2001 06:58 PM
Any 351C, 2V head or otherwise should pull and make power above 6500 RPM. Open the headers for kicks. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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F551
Gearhead Posts: 174
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-25-2001 08:34 PM
Alex - tommorow we make the 8 hour trek to the dyno.500 cid stroker with C8 ported heads, with the MPG port plates. Found out our headers won't fit the dyno(two tubes cross underneath) but the guy has a set that we'll use that are similair. Not great but what can do. If we have time we hope to do runs with/without the plates. The head porter feels they help - when the heads were flowed he had that "dead zone" filled with clay. Car ran good all last season - about where it should be, but maybe we'll see..... * And congrats on your sponsorship! ------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-26-2001 12:42 AM
I'll drop the pipes and see how it goes. Could a restrictive exhaust be diluting the intake and causing detonation (rattle)??Thanks for the tips Paul
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-26-2001 06:15 AM
The new intake could be causing a lean condition, which could lead to detonation. Generally, when switching to an intake that gives the boosters a weaker signal (dual plane to single for example), the jetting needs to be stepped up a little to compensate. That 2.5" exhaust is seriously restricting the engine. Just be aware that opening the exhaust will -also- warrant an increase in jetting. Drop the exhaust, add a little more jet and see what happens. Be sure to check the small stuff like ignition timing. A check for vacuum leaks won't hurt anything, either. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-26-2001 09:47 AM
I believe that the exhaust system is holding the motor back in the upper rpm's. And I think it has less to do with the size of the pipe, 2.5" should be sufficient, than the quality of the muffler.
Plus, with a big single plane intake with a 2" spacer, your booster signal to a carb that size is going to be real weak, causing the plugs to not color very easily making it difficult to jet it properly.
I would drop the pipes, and put some jet to it and see what happens.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-26-2001 10:46 AM
I'll be very interested in your results Fred. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-27-2001 03:39 AM
Have not had a chance to try anything out yet. I was just thinking....could low fuel pressure also cause this problem??
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-27-2001 11:04 AM
Low fuel pressure could certainly create a lean condition that would explain many of your symptoms. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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Clevo377
Gearhead Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-29-2001 05:27 AM
Got some more printouts of my dyno session. At the point power levels off, the AF ratio goes from slowly leaning out, to richening. So i think i can discount low fuel pressure and go back to the restrictive exhaust.
What does everyone think of Magnaflow mufflers?Paul
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