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Author Topic:   Super Stock Question?
Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-21-2000 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just curious about something.

I have noticed that for the most part the successful Ford entries in the SS classes seem to be either 289's or 428's. There are exceptions of course, but these two engines seem to be the majority

Why do the NHRA and IHRA seem to factor out the other Ford engines. You sees tons of Ch*vy 350's, 396's etc, but no Ford 351W, 390's etc. I assume this has to do with the way the horsepower ratings are figured.

Alex or anybody care to shed some light?

Later,

David Cole

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-21-2000 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For some odd reason the 427, 428 CJ and the 289 were always the engine of choice for the factory to get behind in their drag racing efforts back in the 60's and 70's. Although the factory support has dwindled, the racer preferance has not changed. Those engines always had a "soft" rating by the factory. Consequently the NHRA/IHRA factor/adjustment never seemed to hurt them as much as the other engines. The 351W 4V is WAY overated at 290 HP so it was never popular. the Boss 302 which was WAY underated got ractored right out of competition almost immediatly. From 290 to 325 I think. Being that classes are determined on a horsepower to weight ratio you can see how factored horsepower will effect a particular engine/car combinations competitivness. There are may good running 351C's in stock eliminator. Many hold records. They have all been factored also, but seem to sustain. There are a few good running 390 cars also, but the class that they fall into becuase or FoMoCo's over zealous rating of 325 and 335 HP is very competitive. No competitive 351C's or 390's now compete in SS. Plus David, there are more 289/428 fanatics like myself, then the other engines, who love their cars and just keep on spending money and working our asses off. As a rule of thumb you have to make 110 to 120% of your factored horsepower. 289 Mustang is 210/215 Mercurys are 210/220, 428 CJ's are 335/360 and 335/375 depending on Canadian or not. It's pretty hard to get 630+ HP out of a 300 horse 351C with an Autolite 4300 series carb. I hope that this answers some of your questions. Alex

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator
Fleet of FoMoCo's too long to list!
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 12-21-2000 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
another combination too... the mid 70's 460... its not easy to tell,its only used in late model GT classes,its very competitive. Its rated 300hp.

Another not often seen but viable is the 1964 352-4V

What it mainly comes down to is there arent that many of us Ford guys out here it seems, and Ford never did us any favors by making most cars 2V carb'd

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Buff Daddy
Gearhead

Posts: 353
From: Enon Valley PA USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 12-22-2000 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buff Daddy   Click Here to Email Buff Daddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howard Thompson runs very well with his GT/EA '95 Cobra with a 460 (Mark probably knows Howard and the car). My buddy Bob Hammel is a former GT/GA record holder with his 460 '88 T-bird, so this backs up Tom's statement about the 460 being competitve. There are many fast Fords, and many of them are on my photo site, which is in the Members pages section.

Mike

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-22-2000 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just out of curiousity, what ever happened to Hutton's Gt C powered car???I know they were selling it 6-7 years ago and was just wondering if someone bought and if they were as competitive..

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Rustang1
Gearhead

Posts: 110
From:
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-26-2000 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang1   Click Here to Email Rustang1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One engine I've always wondered about for S/SS is the Boss 429?

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1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-26-2000 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Me too! It just never lived up to it's expectations when it was affordable to race. Because of FoMoCo's little HP game with the CJ's NHRA promptly rerated the Boss 429 from 375 HP to 415 in stock and 430 in SS. That "killer" factor destroyed any hopes of making the cars competitive. By the time guys like Glidden and Roush got the combinations figured out, the cars were already too valuble to race. Parts also became expensive and scarce as FoMoCo was pulling out of all motorsports by the mid 70's. There were a few guys that tried to race them but they were never competitive. One that I remember was a Jade Green Boss 429 owned by two Ford engineers called the Dearborn Vibrator. They first ran it in A/S then moved it to SS/C. They could not run with the Sox and Martin and other Hemi cars that were dominant in the class. Also the Nash purpose built Hurst AMX SS cars fit into SS/C with less weight and dual quads. What could have been if not for the politics of the NHRA. Alex

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-26-2000).]

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 5855
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 01-04-2003 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Had to bring this one forward it is very interesting, can you give more info on this if you have any Alex ?


JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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Mark T 7724
Gearhead

Posts: 152
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-04-2003 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark T 7724   Click Here to Email Mark T 7724     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Buff Daddy: I know Howard real well, His son Matthew now drives the Mustang. Howard bought Taylors GT/AA Fireturd.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-04-2003 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I can. Here are the latest NHRA HP adjustments. I assume that IHRA will adopt them also, but have NOT verified this as of yet.
1)

http://nhra.com/2002/sportsman/news/december/121801.html

and 2) http://nhra.com/2002/sportsman/news/december/121902.html
As you can see, due to a letter writing campain, the 351W 290 has been reduced by a whopping 30 HP finally.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 01-04-2003).]

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-04-2003 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
.. what ever happened to Hutton's Gt C powered car???

No one knows what came of this car? I am pretty sure that at the time they were running it, the then named "Kuntz and Craft" were doing his heads.
I know it was a record holder when they were trying to sell it.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-04-2003 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who's Hutton and what kind of car is it?
The only Hutton I know of in SS drives a SS/GT late model fireturd with a chebbie.
Great guy and a nice car, but never a Ford man.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-04-2003 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know they were switching cars, it was a late 80 something mustang (mighthave been a saleen), ss/gt car and had a 351 cleveland and a jericho in it. Ran 9.60's, or maybe 9.40's, and was the NHRA record holder when they were selling it. I talked with one of them on the phone one day for almost an hour about clevelands, he was very friendly guy.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-04-2003 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It might have been Wayne Hutton.

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1542
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-05-2003 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, it appears that the newly lowered HP rating for the 1969 351W 4v, is only in S/S, but nothing is mentioned in the Stock section.Too bad. Also, the 429 CJ/SCJ also got 30 HP removed, from 410-380. A buddy has a SS/GTFA & GA 86 Mustang with the "smogger" 74 460 ThermoQuad engine, I was at his place last nite, he mentioned he might look into that engine package down the road.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-05-2003 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rory, why don't you write (e-mail) the HP committee about the 351W for stock? They are tired of me asking for reductions on Fords. After helping with the 289's for stock and straightening out the Merc vs Ford 289 for SS they don't want anymore input from me for a while.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Stephen & Horace Johnson
Gearhead

Posts: 184
From: Gadsden, AL
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 01-16-2003 03:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen & Horace Johnson   Click Here to Email Stephen & Horace Johnson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys long time no hear from me..lol.. Well don't forget about us and the SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane.. well we got some weight taken off of us.. 75lbs.. but we are still 200lbs heavier than this certain 396 out of TN.. i know Alex and Buff Daddy know who i am talkin about.. but we are creepin up on him.. very slowly.. lol Anyways.. I wish NHRA would do some more about our situation.. But anyways you don't see many 427s running because they have ran out of parts..NHRA willnot let us run the edelbrock head.. why?.. well read the next line.. There isn't but 3 of us in the whole country.. Pat Gerek, Ray Paquet in his Thunderbolt and Us.. As far as the Wayne Hutton car. it was a saleen mustang with a 351 cleveland.. my dad was goin to buy that car back in 1985 or 86.. but he had to sell all of the big block stuff to convert over to a small blk.. but you know my dad is a diehard 427 man..The car was later sold.. i don't remembe to whom.. but i will find out tomorrow.. back then that car was running 9.60s and that was before ported heads were legal.. im GLad to be back Ford racers!!!

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Stephen & Horace Johnson
NHRA-IHRA SS/D Ford Fairlane # 2162 & 2167
(Ex-Van Cleve car)

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1542
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-16-2003 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stephen, Jerry Young still has his SS/D 427 Fairlane too, though he hasn`t been out in a few years. He lives in BC, Canada, but quite a ways North East of me & TomP.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-16-2003 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Stephan, glad to see you posting here with us FoMoCo folks who appreciate you and your dad's efforts.
I believe that Dallas Kelly still races his T-Bolt occasionally with IHRA and at nostalgia Ford events.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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