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Author Topic:   welding with gas
sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 02-28-2006 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus        Reply w/Quote
Hey guys, I have a new mig welder that does both flux and gas similar to Brian's. I'm wondering how the gas works as far as hooking it up.

I have a keggerator and two CO2 bottles for it, and figured I could use one bottle for welding. I forget how much graduations I have on the regulator, but I usually set the pressure for the keg around 12-14 psi or so.

No, I will not be drinking and welding at the same time. In fact, I hardly even use the keggerator anymore. 2 kids have put a damper on that I'm afraid.

My question is, how much pressure do I use, or do I adjust it along with the welder settings to get the "bacon sizzlin" sound like Scott keeps mentioning? Or is the bacon sizzlin sound strictly related to the amperage I'm running and CO2 pressure related to spatter?

I also figured I'd go ahead and use up the straight CO2 I have now and get it refilled with a argon mix for next time as I grow into more welding.

Also, my welder can handle .023-.030 wire. I bought a spool of each, .023 and .030, but haven't found any info yet as to when to use each with what thickness of metal. Any suggestions?

I'm building a pressure sandblaster from an old air compressor (I'll post pics and plans when done) and then once the blaster is built, I'll blast the 68 and then start welding up the holes in it (various very minor rust spots + the major project of the passenger quarter). So, I was planning on using the .030 on the blaster and the .023 on the sheetmetal. Does that sound right?

TIA,
Sam

sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 02-28-2006 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus        Reply w/Quote
Here I go posting on my own thread again.

Just found out I can't fill my CO2 bottle with anything but CO2. A 60# bottle will run me $150 full with $22 refills. OUCH!

lonewolf
Gearhead

Posts: 419
From: Colorado; M&M #3117
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 02-28-2006 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lonewolf        Reply w/Quote
Hey Sam,

For some reason, I think the pressure is ALOT higher than the 12-14 you talk about. I will check mine tonight when I get home and let you know.

I use .023 for everything. It is easier to start and maintain an arc with and doesn't require as much current so blow through is minimized. One thing I found is to trim your wire before every arc start (arcs start at sharp corners). With my welder, the cable liner and tips are different between .030 and .023 so changing them out is a pain.

I can't remember what welder Brian got, but if you can, get the large spool adapter. You will be surprised how fast you go through 2 lb spools.

Your bottle price sounds about on par with what I paid. Since you have to get a new one, run C25 in it rather than just pure CO2. The welds are much cleaner with the argon blend.

HTH,

Rick

------------------
Lonewolf
1968 Coupe in Pieces
99 1/2 F250
FFR MkIII

lonewolf
Gearhead

Posts: 419
From: Colorado; M&M #3117
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 03-01-2006 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lonewolf        Reply w/Quote
Hey Sam,

I was out in the shop and totally spaced looking at the regulator. Sorry about that. I will look tonight.

Cheers,

Rick

------------------
Lonewolf
1968 Coupe in Pieces
99 1/2 F250
FFR MkIII

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-01-2006 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
Get a big bottle. They don't cost much more to refill than a smaller one.... and last forever with moderate use.

My bottle is 48" tall and 7" in diameter. It costs less than $30 to refill, and I've only had to do it once... in the last seven years. I -might- get another summer out of it before it needs it's second refill.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 03-01-2006 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus        Reply w/Quote
Is the $150 bottle a big one or no? I called the shop, didn't stop in person.

lonewolf
Gearhead

Posts: 419
From: Colorado; M&M #3117
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 03-02-2006 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lonewolf        Reply w/Quote
It sounds about right for the big one.

I checked on my regulator last night and I don't have an output pressure on it. It was preset by Lincoln and the docs tell me "Don't touch it. You'lll break it." However, they don't tell me what the output pressure is that I can find. Bummer...

About a year ago, I upgraded helmets to a Miller XLi auto helmet. After years of using fixed lens, I won't go back. I can lighten it to about 10 for stick welding and darken to about 13 for MIG work by a knob on the side. It's also adjustable for distance for lens to face and up/down so it's the most comfortable helmet I have ever used. I highly recommend it.

Cheers,

Rick

------------------
Lonewolf
1968 Coupe in Pieces
99 1/2 F250
FFR MkIII

427Fastback
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 03-02-2006 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 427Fastback        Reply w/Quote
25-30lbs is the norm for pressure..
As mentioned,a mix of 75/25 will give you better welds than pure C02.Pure C02 should really only be used for Flux core...

Argon....All tig and alluminum wire
C02......Flux core, mild steel and stainless
C02/argon mix.....hardwire/microwire(std wire)
Tri-mix..Stainless hard wire and some metal core wire.

Cory

------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-06-2006 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
In fact, I hardly even use the keggerator anymore. 2 kids have put a damper on that I'm afraid.

I find my kids make me drink more!

Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-06-2006 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 427Fastback:
As mentioned,a mix of 75/25 will give you better welds than pure C02.Pure C02 should really only be used for Flux core...

Argon....All tig and alluminum wire
C02......Flux core, mild steel and stainless
C02/argon mix.....hardwire/microwire(std wire)
Tri-mix..Stainless hard wire and some metal core wire.



Cory,

#1) Tri-mix...?... Is what, 5% CO2, 20% Argon and Helium?

A friend of mine uses 100% argon for his stainless steel TIG welding, mostly 2" square tubing, for off-road grill guards.

#2) Do you think he'd get better/cleaner welds if he used the Tri-Mix instead -or- can't the Tri-Mix be used when TIGing stainless steel?

#3) You mentioned "stainless hard wire", do you happen to know what diameters can that be purchased in?

#4) Can a person run stainless hard wire in their MIG welder to weld stainless?

Thanks! (Sorry for the intrusion, Sam! )
Ryan

427Fastback
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 03-06-2006 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 427Fastback        Reply w/Quote
I dont remember the mix in tri-mix...
100% argon is correct for tig welding mild steel,stainless and alluminum.In my opinion tig welding mild steel is the hardest of the three.You must grind off all of the mill scale and make sure the steel is perfectly clean other wise it will pop alot on you and contaminate the tungsten.It welds fine when the metal is clean and prepped well.It is not hard...just requires lots of prep.

You can weld S/S at home with your wire feed as long as you have the right gas.I am not sure of the wire size available as i very seldom ever use it.I have a 300 amp tig machine at home here and prefer to tig everything..
A warning tho...S/S hardwire splatters alot and the splatter does not like to come off.Practise a lot with settings and keep exposed areas covered or spray with anti-splatter.

Cory

------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.

sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 03-07-2006 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus        Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys.

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this, and found this...

http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm

The local welding supply place seems to only stock the 75/25 mix.

2FarGone
Journeyman

Posts: 97
From: Kent, Oh,
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-08-2006 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2FarGone        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
Thanks guys.

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this, and found this...

http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm


From the artical:

While working with the XXXXX and XXXXX manufacturers I was shocked to find out how little the corporate executives in this industry knew about the XXXXX processes and the XXXXX products they manufactured and sold.

I guess my point is the same could be said about any industry.

Shooting for market share and if snake oil grabs another fraction and increases profits, well, what could be wrong with that?

I have a fwe friends who weld for a living and have for years, they tell me there is no point in using anything more than basic 75/25 unless doing something special or exotic.

Blacksmith
Gearhead

Posts: 604
From: Front Royal, Va., USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-09-2006 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blacksmith        Reply w/Quote
You might consider just using flux core wire w/o any gas. That's all I use in my blacksmith shop & it works fine. The flux core wire is a little more expensive than solid wire and there's a little more splatter to deal with but overall it's probably easier & cheaper than filling gas tanks all the time.

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-09-2006 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
My big gas bottle cost $85 for a 5 year lease and only drains twenty-some bucks from my wallet at re-fill time. I've burned pounds and pounds of wire, and am only on my second tank. A tank will generally last me around 3 years before it needs refilled. It lasts a very long time. Going to gas is WELL worth it.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

Blacksmith
Gearhead

Posts: 604
From: Front Royal, Va., USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-09-2006 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blacksmith        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
A tank will generally last me around 3 years before it needs refilled. It lasts a very long time. Going to gas is WELL worth it.

Good Luck!

[/B]



I usually go through a 10# roll of flux core in about 6 months. Gas would probably be better for less splatter to clean up but in the 5 years I've had my welder I have gotten pretty used to non-gas shielded & get pretty good results overall.
A matter of what you're used to & what works I guess.

sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 03-09-2006 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming!!

lonewolf
Gearhead

Posts: 419
From: Colorado; M&M #3117
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 03-10-2006 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lonewolf        Reply w/Quote
I use the flux core stuff on occasion as my machine will weld deeper with flux than it will on the gas. I, too, use it without gas it works very well on thicker metals. That being said, flux will not work well for light weight metals usually common in body work.For that, there is no substitute for the gas.

Lately, I have found myself using gas for most everything and going back to the stick welder for anything heavier than gas can do on a single pass. It's just easier than converting the welder over (polarity, gun liner, etc.) and I am lazy.

I really want to get a square wave TIG but the budget office has rejected that.

Rick

------------------
Lonewolf
1968 Coupe in Pieces
99 1/2 F250
FFR MkIII

Blacksmith
Gearhead

Posts: 604
From: Front Royal, Va., USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-14-2006 08:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blacksmith        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lonewolf:
I use the flux core stuff on occasion as my machine will weld deeper with flux than it will on the gas. I, too, use it without gas it works very well on thicker metals. That being said, flux will not work well for light weight metals usually common in body work.For that, there is no substitute for the gas.

Rick



News to me about the different depths of penetration w/gas & flux core w/o gas. I'd use gas w/ the mig & a stick for heavier work if I had one (on my shopping list for my blacksmith shop...one of these days).
Thanks for the info.

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-26-2006 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT        Reply w/Quote
good info here!

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/basic-basics-welding-how-do-i-repair-body-panels-44009.html

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