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  Beginners welding

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Author Topic:   Beginners welding
mike70351w
Gearhead

Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 07-20-2005 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mike70351w        Reply w/Quote
I'm finishing up installing bolt on comp enginer sub frame connector tonight.

??? Question ???

I'm interested in completeing sub frame project myself while car is still on jacks. I saw a small complete ready to weld oxygen/gas kit in Atwood for about $50. Welding kit is good for up to 3/16 steel.

What welding rod or solder should I use?

Is this the way for a beginner welder to go?


Mark T 7724
Gearhead

Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-20-2005 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark T 7724        Reply w/Quote
Gas welding is only good for Brazing to do it correctly with steel takes alot of skill and still will not be a struturally sound weld. Wire-Feed is your best option but a decent welder will cost you over $450.00 but it is the easiest to master for the novice welder.

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1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member

Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 888
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-21-2005 12:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose        Reply w/Quote
Maybe you could rent a wire welder from a rental store???

B

68 Coop
Gearhead

Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 07-21-2005 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 Coop        Reply w/Quote
Not for to try to get you in trouble, but don't you know someone in the vehicle maintaince dept(AFB)??? Shouldn't take no time to weld them on a rack.

------------------
William
68 Coupe
289
Edelbrock 600
Performer Intake
Headers/X-pipe/Flowmaster 30's
C4
8"rear/2:79gears
"Restomod in Progress"

Good friends are hard to find, even harder to leave, and impossible to forget.

Steve-UK
Gearhead

Posts: 392
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 07-21-2005 05:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve-UK        Reply w/Quote
If you have not welded before I would recommend that you do not do it yourself. As you are welding thick (connectors) to thin (frame). Unless you know what you are doing you will blow lots of holes in the frame and end up making it weaker then before you started.

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-21-2005 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
Take it to a muffler shop and ask how much they would charge to weld them in. Be sure to let them know the connectors are already bolted in, and just need welded. I don't think they should charge any more than $50.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

mike70351w
Gearhead

Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 07-21-2005 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mike70351w        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for advice guy....

The hobby shop is out of question. I was there last week and got the impression it was to hot too work. The guy that install my 205/40/17 tires on import got a little too fustrated with the installation of 4 tires. I cerntainly don't want him around car with torch.

After bolting up driver side last night I was convinced to let muffler shop do welding job.

Last accident at home cost me a big toe.

I'm much wiser now....LOL

Steve68Cougar
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: McPherson, KS, USA
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 07-21-2005 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve68Cougar        Reply w/Quote
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet - make sure when you get the subframe connectors welded in that the car is resting on all four tires. If anyone tries to do it any other way (such as setting the car on jack stands under the subframes or on a traditional lift that picks up the car by 4 points on the body), get the car out of there as quickly as possible. It can and most likely will put unwanted stresses in the body of the car. As other people have suggested (and sounds like you've already figured it out), don't make this your first welding job. Good luck!

------------------
68Cougar - 289, 4-speed
98 Mustang Cobra convertible - stock - does everything better than the Cougar except bring a smile to my face.

ntman
Gearhead

Posts: 105
From: Mulkeytown, IL
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 07-21-2005 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ntman        Reply w/Quote
Just stop buy the machine shop (on base) and ask one of the welding guys if they can help you out. They can go to the hobby shop with you and use the welder there and shouldn't need the hobby shop attendant at all. When I was in the AF (13 yrs) and just got out in 99, I pretty much lived at the hobby shop. In fact I got to know the old Chief that ran it so well, I had my own set of keys so I could come and go as I pleased...Give it a shot.

Mark T 7724
Gearhead

Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-21-2005 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark T 7724        Reply w/Quote
Mike: Because I do this all the time I forgot to tell you some very important tips. You need to make sure the surfaces that you intend to have welded have to be ground to "Clean" metal. Your not going to like this next part unless you "Prepped" the area that you intend to weld; You will have to remove the Sub-Frame connectors to do this. Any Paint, Dirt, Under-coating that remains will make it very hard to weld. The reason for this is welding is done with a Gas Atmosphere that displaces oxygen and other gasses, The burning of contaminents will degrade the weld.

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1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member

mike70351w
Gearhead

Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 07-21-2005 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mike70351w        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the input again. Hobby shop is out of the question(I'm comfortable spending the cash outside the gate where it's appreciated). I have turn down before the axle, now I'm having tail pipes install to rear so I'll have muffler guys weld sub frame WITH CAR RESTING ON ALL FOUR!

I'm getting ready for the TERMINAL LEAVE drive back to the east...yeeeehooooo!!!

mike70351w
Gearhead

Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 07-21-2005 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mike70351w        Reply w/Quote
Mark
I wish I had planned this when I was on Temp duty at Edwards for 6 month back in 95. Would have gotten you to weld sub for a beer...LOL


F15Falcon
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: el paso, tx.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 07-21-2005 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F15Falcon        Reply w/Quote
Actually, gas welding can be certified by the FAA, along with TIG and MIG, and if done correctly is just as strong as any other weld. I take a small oxy/acetalyne setup with me to the race track and I can cut or weld anything that breaks on my or anyone elses car. I can and have welded chrome moly tubing with a gas setup if that is any indication as to how strong the welds are. It takes alot of practice, so I would not try to learn to weld with it on your car, but if you can master gas welding, you are a true welder.

Mark T 7724
Gearhead

Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-21-2005 11:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark T 7724        Reply w/Quote
Mike: I wish you would have gotten in touch with me when you were here too. I'm making Chrome-Moly Tubular Sub-Frame connectors. I have a set on Don Keen's C/S car and they work "Great" they are weld in at this point but could be bolt-in but it's better welded.

Beer is always good LOL

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1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member

Mark T 7724
Gearhead

Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-21-2005 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark T 7724        Reply w/Quote
F15Falcon; You are right on this, Done correctly Gas Welding is as strong as any other procedure, But like you said it's not as easy as MIG but more like TIG. I bring a Miller Dynasty 200 to the races with me, It will Stick or TIG steel and aluminum.

------------------
1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member

wrksnfx
Gearhead

Posts: 427
From: Warren,MI,Macomb
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 07-22-2005 04:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wrksnfx        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mark T 7724:
Gas welding is only good for Brazing to do it correctly with steel takes alot of skill and still will not be a struturally sound weld. Wire-Feed is your best option but a decent welder will cost you over $450.00 but it is the easiest to master for the novice welder.



Not true you can weld w/ gas and for all those that don't believe it you can also weld w/o using a fill rod I was taught gas welding by a welding shop teacher who even proved to me that it can be done and this guy has been welding professionally for over 30 years this was 15 years ago.

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