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Author
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Topic: Beginners welding
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mike70351w
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 07-20-2005 08:07 PM
 
I'm finishing up installing bolt on comp enginer sub frame connector tonight.??? Question ??? I'm interested in completeing sub frame project myself while car is still on jacks. I saw a small complete ready to weld oxygen/gas kit in Atwood for about $50. Welding kit is good for up to 3/16 steel. What welding rod or solder should I use? Is this the way for a beginner welder to go?
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Mark T 7724
Gearhead Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-20-2005 10:33 PM
Gas welding is only good for Brazing to do it correctly with steel takes alot of skill and still will not be a struturally sound weld. Wire-Feed is your best option but a decent welder will cost you over $450.00 but it is the easiest to master for the novice welder.------------------
1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 888
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 07-21-2005 12:21 AM
Maybe you could rent a wire welder from a rental store???B
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 07-21-2005 03:17 AM
Not for to try to get you in trouble, but don't you know someone in the vehicle maintaince dept(AFB)??? Shouldn't take no time to weld them on a rack. ------------------
William
68 Coupe
289
Edelbrock 600
Performer Intake
Headers/X-pipe/Flowmaster 30's
C4
8"rear/2:79gears
"Restomod in Progress" Good friends are hard to find, even harder to leave, and impossible to forget.
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 392
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 07-21-2005 05:34 AM
If you have not welded before I would recommend that you do not do it yourself. As you are welding thick (connectors) to thin (frame). Unless you know what you are doing you will blow lots of holes in the frame and end up making it weaker then before you started.
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-21-2005 09:57 AM
Take it to a muffler shop and ask how much they would charge to weld them in. Be sure to let them know the connectors are already bolted in, and just need welded. I don't think they should charge any more than $50.Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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mike70351w
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 07-21-2005 01:42 PM
Thanks for advice guy....The hobby shop is out of question. I was there last week and got the impression it was to hot too work. The guy that install my 205/40/17 tires on import got a little too fustrated with the installation of 4 tires. I cerntainly don't want him around car with torch. After bolting up driver side last night I was convinced to let muffler shop do welding job. Last accident at home cost me a big toe. I'm much wiser now....LOL
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Steve68Cougar
Journeyman Posts: 49
From: McPherson, KS, USA
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 07-21-2005 08:30 PM
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet - make sure when you get the subframe connectors welded in that the car is resting on all four tires. If anyone tries to do it any other way (such as setting the car on jack stands under the subframes or on a traditional lift that picks up the car by 4 points on the body), get the car out of there as quickly as possible. It can and most likely will put unwanted stresses in the body of the car. As other people have suggested (and sounds like you've already figured it out), don't make this your first welding job. Good luck!------------------
68Cougar - 289, 4-speed
98 Mustang Cobra convertible - stock - does everything better than the Cougar except bring a smile to my face.
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ntman
Gearhead Posts: 105
From: Mulkeytown, IL
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 07-21-2005 09:47 PM
Just stop buy the machine shop (on base) and ask one of the welding guys if they can help you out. They can go to the hobby shop with you and use the welder there and shouldn't need the hobby shop attendant at all. When I was in the AF (13 yrs) and just got out in 99, I pretty much lived at the hobby shop. In fact I got to know the old Chief that ran it so well, I had my own set of keys so I could come and go as I pleased...Give it a shot.
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Mark T 7724
Gearhead Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-21-2005 10:41 PM
Mike: Because I do this all the time I forgot to tell you some very important tips. You need to make sure the surfaces that you intend to have welded have to be ground to "Clean" metal. Your not going to like this next part unless you "Prepped" the area that you intend to weld; You will have to remove the Sub-Frame connectors to do this. Any Paint, Dirt, Under-coating that remains will make it very hard to weld. The reason for this is welding is done with a Gas Atmosphere that displaces oxygen and other gasses, The burning of contaminents will degrade the weld.------------------
1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member
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mike70351w
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 07-21-2005 10:56 PM
Thanks for all the input again. Hobby shop is out of the question(I'm comfortable spending the cash outside the gate where it's appreciated). I have turn down before the axle, now I'm having tail pipes install to rear so I'll have muffler guys weld sub frame WITH CAR RESTING ON ALL FOUR!I'm getting ready for the TERMINAL LEAVE drive back to the east...yeeeehooooo!!!
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mike70351w
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: Delaware
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 07-21-2005 11:04 PM
Mark
I wish I had planned this when I was on Temp duty at Edwards for 6 month back in 95. Would have gotten you to weld sub for a beer...LOL
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F15Falcon
Gearhead Posts: 109
From: el paso, tx.
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-21-2005 11:09 PM
Actually, gas welding can be certified by the FAA, along with TIG and MIG, and if done correctly is just as strong as any other weld. I take a small oxy/acetalyne setup with me to the race track and I can cut or weld anything that breaks on my or anyone elses car. I can and have welded chrome moly tubing with a gas setup if that is any indication as to how strong the welds are. It takes alot of practice, so I would not try to learn to weld with it on your car, but if you can master gas welding, you are a true welder.
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Mark T 7724
Gearhead Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-21-2005 11:32 PM
Mike: I wish you would have gotten in touch with me when you were here too. I'm making Chrome-Moly Tubular Sub-Frame connectors. I have a set on Don Keen's C/S car and they work "Great" they are weld in at this point but could be bolt-in but it's better welded. Beer is always good LOL ------------------
1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member
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Mark T 7724
Gearhead Posts: 334
From: Palmdale, CA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-21-2005 11:39 PM
F15Falcon; You are right on this, Done correctly Gas Welding is as strong as any other procedure, But like you said it's not as easy as MIG but more like TIG. I bring a Miller Dynasty 200 to the races with me, It will Stick or TIG steel and aluminum. ------------------
1964-1/2 Mustang SS/L 289 4-Speed, 10.537 @ 124.83. West Coast Money Maker Racing Team Member
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wrksnfx
Gearhead Posts: 427
From: Warren,MI,Macomb
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 07-22-2005 04:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mark T 7724:
Gas welding is only good for Brazing to do it correctly with steel takes alot of skill and still will not be a struturally sound weld. Wire-Feed is your best option but a decent welder will cost you over $450.00 but it is the easiest to master for the novice welder.
Not true you can weld w/ gas and for all those that don't believe it you can also weld w/o using a fill rod I was taught gas welding by a welding shop teacher who even proved to me that it can be done and this guy has been welding professionally for over 30 years this was 15 years ago.
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