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Author Topic:   Permanent air lines
Velocity0
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Burnaby, BC Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-06-2002 01:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Velocity0   Click Here to Email Velocity0     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you know if you can just use 1/2 inch copper piping with soldered joints for running air through it?
Only running at 120 PSI

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 25777
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 04-07-2002 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, copper will balloon. You want iron pipe.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1050
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-07-2002 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or more specifically, galvanized iron water pipe. (rust)

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5009
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-08-2002 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I made a moisture trap out of heavy schedule pvc. It worked great.

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Velocity0
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Burnaby, BC Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-09-2002 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Velocity0   Click Here to Email Velocity0     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Really?
I've seen a lot of shops around here that just use 1/2 inch copper.
seems to work fine..
Also, it would only be about 90 PSI.
Thats all I use on tools.

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 1992
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-09-2002 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
pvc is a lot easier and works fine also. good luck

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.56 @88mph 1/8
1.56 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 25777
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 04-09-2002 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's the burst strength of PVC or copper pipes?

Have you priced eyeballs lately?

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5009
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-09-2002 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The heavy schedule-can't remember the no. is plenty strong to make an air drying system If your spray at 45-55 max lbs, it's not a danger. checked it out. I built up a network of pipe running up an down with drains at the bottom dip and the final end was going uphill, the idea to keep moisture out of air. using the smallest length hose possible with final filter at gun. for the purpose of keeping water out of air. Copied the system in smaller scale by looking at what one body shop had done to minimize moisture. Built it on a frame so that it was easily removable. Gave it away when stopped doing complete paint jobs. As to copper, don't know but I'd want to check it out. PVC is used in different aplications where water is run through at high pressure.

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davids68
Gearhead

Posts: 251
From: Louisville, KY, United States M&M # 351
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-09-2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davids68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Type L copper is heavier than the usual cheapest stuff at stores like home depot. They sell the heavier walled type also. All the copper fittings are the same.

This is used in commercial applications every day at pressures far exceeding what the normal two stage compressor (175 psi) will put out.

Just use a nonlead solder 95%tin 5% antinomy and you should have no problems.

Go to a site like Shapre http://www.sharpe1.com/
and click on their piping layout and it will give you how it should be installed to minimize water in your air. You may not need all the filtration they show but it will give you the idea of how to run your drop/drops so you can drain the water and keep most of it out of your filter/regulator.

Sorry Steve but the right type of copper has working pressures of about 300 psi I believe.

David

Oops. Got there and click on Dr. Gun first then the air piping layout.

[This message has been edited by davids68 (edited 04-09-2002).]

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iamblackjack
Gearhead

Posts: 146
From: Magnolia, Tx, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-09-2002 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iamblackjack   Click Here to Email iamblackjack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
What's the burst strength of PVC or copper pipes?

Have you priced eyeballs lately?


I ran 1" sch 40 through my garage. It says on it that it is good for 400psi.
I also plan to put my compressor in my garden shed that is 75' from the garage so that I won't have to listen to the noisy thing. Plus there'd be less dust.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1050
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-10-2002 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Plastic is strong enough to handle the air pressure, but you don't want to bang anything into it.

Copper would work fine, but is expensive, and you have to solder the joints together.

Galvanized steel water line is cheap, strong, and simply screws together. It seems like the obvious choice here.... unless you just like fixing broken lines or spending money.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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davids68
Gearhead

Posts: 251
From: Louisville, KY, United States M&M # 351
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-10-2002 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davids68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or if you have the right plumber working as a subcontractor for you the price on the copper can be quite appealing.

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5009
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-10-2002 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Schedule 40 pvc is not THAT fragile. Like if you're not going to attach a line to a wall high enough so that Pvc, coppper or whatever doesn't get hit. And if, by some reason it did it's a cheap, FAST fix. Galvanised pipe doesn't see much use here.

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davids68
Gearhead

Posts: 251
From: Louisville, KY, United States M&M # 351
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-10-2002 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davids68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

The above link is on PVC for air or compressed gas. If for some reason you should hit it the shattered pieces are very sharp and moving like bullets.

DC

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1050
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-11-2002 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I was starting from scratch, I'd probably use galvanized water pipe, but the plastic will be fine unless you bang something into it sharply.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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davids68
Gearhead

Posts: 251
From: Louisville, KY, United States M&M # 351
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-11-2002 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davids68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are many many shops (business and home) that use the pvc. Just figured since I knew of the warnings whoever reads this should have the info in order to make an informed decision.

If you do use it just make sure it is properly secured and out of harm's way. There are places that have used it for 20 plus years with no problems.

Also when going overhead with whatever you choose don't go too close to the ceiling. The heat up there will kill the cooling effects the piping will give you and it will decide to condense when it comes out of your spray gun or air tool. Also keep it spaced off of the wall by at least and inch so it has air circulation around it. Again for the cooling effect you're looking for.

HTH
David

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MLariviere
Moderator

Posts: 2738
From: Biddeford,Me.USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-11-2002 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MLariviere   Click Here to Email MLariviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't forget that the PVC is sucseptible to UV light,so it will deteriorate over time,and be more likely to burst. plastic and light do not mix.

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5009
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-11-2002 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a swimming pool drain that has run along the side of my house to the front, under the driveway and into the sewer. The part on the side of the house is exposed and has caught the morning Fl. sun for 22 years and is not broken apart. It is discolored but still quite functional with no leaks. The pvc lines that run from the pump in to the ground are still OK. also. That is all schedule 40 stuff and has to pass tests as it is commonly used here in many applications.Metal pipe has limited use. The idea of ventilating pipe for condensation reduction would apply to all types.

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 1992
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-11-2002 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
mellowyellow, i think some of these folks need to look at a piece of schedule 40 so they will know what we are talking about!!
hell the stuff is 1/4 in thick!!!!!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.56 @88mph 1/8
1.56 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 25777
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 04-12-2002 07:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL! Sounds like some of you guys suscribe to the "Ah, hell, that's good enuf, prolly..." school of engineering.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her... or something like that...

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5009
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-12-2002 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You win

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timjk
Journeyman

Posts: 15
From:
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-13-2002 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for timjk   Click Here to Email timjk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just my 2 cents worth here. Never use PVC for compressed air. It can become flying spears with razor sharp edges. In many industrial applications you will see heavy copper pipe or schedule 40 black pipe. I guess the idea of not useing galvanized is that it will rust more rapidly from the inside out than plan water, so I've been told.

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rellik74
Gearhead

Posts: 121
From: Trinidad , Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-18-2002 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rellik74   Click Here to Email rellik74     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MY 2 cents worth. Schedule 40 and schedule 80 pvc will work, 80 is better and not much more cost. Black pipe is best! Remember when running the lines buy the biggest you can aford as it will give you more capacity. A 3/4 inch line has 2 1/2 times capacity of a 1/2 and so on when you go bigger. I am going to use 1 1/2 sch. 80 pvc on mine for the main line and 3/4 to each outlet.

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-21-2002 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like it might be safer not to have a shop. Gosh! Flying chards

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 282
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-24-2002 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I install schedule 40 in my automotive repair shop in 1990 without a single airline mishap. I sold the business in 1999 and it had all the original PVC.

One of the ends I missed gluing and it didn't blow off till the air pressure was around 140 psi.... it did get my hart going, lol. But, it didn't damage anything, not even the pipe or connector.

I would say there is a potential danger if something hits it and if used should be mounted high.

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