Brought to you in part by:

.

Tools & Supplies by Eastwood

  Mustangsandmore Forums
  Tool Time
  Advise for welding beginner?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Advise for welding beginner?
SnakeEyes
Journeyman

Posts: 84
From: On a rock in the middle of the pacific *Hawaii*
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 08-13-2001 05:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SnakeEyes   Click Here to Email SnakeEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK guys I have been wanting to learn to weld for a while now but never really tried. My father usually does all the welding but I think its time that I learn now or I will never learn at all. He is really busy during the week and I don't feel right asking for more help when he should be relaxing on the weekends and I really want to weld. We have all the tools MIG welder, compressor, die grinders, etc. I use most of the tools except for the main one the MIG. Any advise?

------------------
Success comes to those who hustle wisely.

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 08-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 08-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 08-13-2001).]

IP: Logged

mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 3592
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-13-2001 07:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
practice-practice-practice. Some people seem to be naturally good welders. I didn't fit into that category. Getting scrap metal of various thickness, started to practice with settings, technique, etc. I have done frame rails, torqueboxes, floors, patches. Then there's the seat of the pants technique? LOL!, making the mistake of buying a sh*tbox car like I did, one time. Enduring the laughter, cruel! remarks from friends??, adopted the I'll show you, you S.O.B, attitude and started!! A bodyman, doing it every day, learns by experience, skill, and repetition. Like other things in life YOU GOTTA USE IT OR LOSE IT! You'll no doubt be a good welder because you want to be! But I'm sure that the guy who does the welding in the MMonthly restoration articles didn't learn overnight! That guy is REALLY GOOD!

IP: Logged

SnakeEyes
Journeyman

Posts: 84
From: On a rock in the middle of the pacific *Hawaii*
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 08-13-2001 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SnakeEyes   Click Here to Email SnakeEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yea some major repairs coming up and made me wonder why I was messing around with this ****box. I have to replace the floors, passenger side front frame rail, crossmember and some others. I think what keeps you working on it is when you open up a magazine or look at a photo gallery. Kind of gives you the motivation or will power to work on it no matter how bad. So I guess the only way to learn is by doing it. A book about it might be a good starting point? its gonna be a loooooooooonnngggg road. But I am seeing things on the bright side.
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by mellowyellow:
practice-practice-practice. Some people seem to be naturally good welders. I didn't fit into that category. Getting scrap metal of various thickness, started to practice with settings, technique, etc. I have done frame rails, torqueboxes, floors, patches. Then there's the seat of the pants technique? LOL!, making the mistake of buying a sh*tbox car like I did, one time. Enduring the laughter, cruel! remarks from friends??, adopted the I'll show you, you S.O.B, attitude and started!! A bodyman, doing it every day, learns by experience, skill, and repetition. Like other things in life YOU GOTTA USE IT OR LOSE IT! You'll no doubt be a good welder because you want to be! But I'm sure that the guy who does the welding in the MMonthly restoration articles didn't learn overnight! That guy is REALLY GOOD!

------------------
Success comes to those who hustle wisely.

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 08-13-2001).]

IP: Logged

drgentry
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: south texas
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 08-13-2001 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for drgentry   Click Here to Email drgentry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SnakeEyes, MellowYellow is right. Practice, practice and more practice. Get some sheetmetal and try to buttweld the 2 pieces together. This is the hardest to weld correctly. You need to tackweld every 3-4 inches and then go back and fill it in. If you try to weld it continuously it will warp on you. I have a small MIG with gas and I can weld sheetmetal so thin you would'nt believe it. I've never taken any formal welding classes but I've had a few good teachers in the oilfield. Maybe you can get Dad to help get you on the right track and give you some tips. Most fathers love for their sons to ask for advice. Especially nowadays with all the hustle and bustle in our lives. Well, that's my 2 cents. David

------------------
65 Mustang Fastback-Work in progress
64 1/2 Coupe-Next Project
2000 Mustang
2000 F250 Powerstroke

[This message has been edited by drgentry (edited 08-13-2001).]

IP: Logged

cynot65
Gearhead

Posts: 835
From: New York
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-13-2001 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cynot65   Click Here to Email cynot65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Snake? I asked myself and these guys a long time ago, much the same question you did. I came to my decision in this way. Can I, as a beginner welder, think that I could "learn as I go", and not only put in, but take out the rockers, torque boxes, frame rails, floors inner and outer wheel houses and feel confident enough to put my family in it?
I chose a professional. Paid the price but watched and helped as every piece was put back in. My hat is off to you,
you welding Gods Just my 2 cents.
Snake,If you want to learn and you have a good teacher then you go for it. I don't know how old you are but if I coulda learned this stuff when I was 21... (I'm more than double that)
Tony C*

------------------
65 Convertible 289 4spd
M&M Member#450

[This message has been edited by cynot65 (edited 08-13-2001).]

IP: Logged

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 21832
From: Saco, Maine USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-13-2001 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I find the more I burn myself the better I get.

Seriously, like Peter said; practice, practice, practice.

I'm glad you have MIG to work with. That shortens the learning curve by 75%.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

IP: Logged

mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 3592
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-13-2001 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some interesting points. Being in sales for too long made doing cars a plesant thing, even though I do not particularly like welding. But being able to sell is somewhat akin to the welding gig. If I didn't think I could sell I sure as heck wouldn't have closed any sales. While I didn't like welding, it was part of the drill and I learned. With a mig, it's not easy but it's easier to learn than the other forms-at least for me. And, I just didn't pick up that damn thing and start putting in rails. Being pragmatic{Ilike that better than being lazy!} I paid a guy to come in with a killer torch and torch out all the sh*t one side at a time. Factory spot welds on rails are about every inch and a quarter. My plug welds are every 3/4" with good penetration. Torque boxes and floors are welded solid. In my locale, I did as good as I would have got in a collision shop. The rationale there was "We'll take it as filler 'cause we make more on insurance work". This is true. But with an attitude like that, started doing my own work. I have done 3 frame rail torque box jobs and do not intend to do anymore....unless a 65/66 cv comes along with a can't refuse price! For a person who doesn't do it everyday, it takes 5 times as long. Not cost effective on a multi car basis! I do enjoy body work, I worked in it going through college and it never left me. The 65 which I've driven for almost 3 yrs. has logged 10,000 sunny day miles and it's had some things done to it that make it tighter than an unrestored one. You see, I wouldn't drive it if I thought welds were going to start popping like 22's going off! If a person has doubts and doesn't want to practice, etc., then a body shop is the answer. we had a professional welder do a friends cv. His welding was excellent but he didn't want to do it the way it should look. When we got through to him he did a super job. A lot of repair persons want to pull the ol' blue eyes theme "I did it MY way!"

IP: Logged

Stang28965
Gearhead

Posts: 314
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-14-2001 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stang28965   Click Here to Email Stang28965     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been welding for 3 years, and yes practice is the best thing for you, But you must also learn technique, If you are doing it wrong it will be 100% harder for you. And whats weird with welding is, you might look back at a old weld you did, that you thought was good, and say man how could I have ever sucked that bad! I took two years of welding in Highschool, and I worked at weco as a production tig welder. And now I am going off to college for 2 years of welding. Mig is pretty straight forward to do, But I must say I like Tig the best, Its easy to control, no noise, less smoke, cleaner welds. But they say it is one of the hardest to learn. When I got the job at Weco I knew stick and mig welding, and they wanted to test me out on tig and I got the hang of it within 2 days, they were amazed and tried to get me to work for them full time and not go to college, ha yeah right.

-Jeff

------------------
1965 Mustang
289 4speed

IP: Logged

mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 3592
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-14-2001 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jeff: You remind me of the guy in a statistics class in school. He got everything right away! I hated him!!LMAO! Some guys just have that touch right out of the chute! A "little" technique sure does help!!

IP: Logged

cynot65
Gearhead

Posts: 835
From: New York
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-14-2001 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cynot65   Click Here to Email cynot65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Big Guy, I burnt myself more times then I want to and didn't learn nothing but how to handle the preoxide bottle without getting it dirty. I finally put one in the garage.
Tony C*

IP: Logged

Stang28965
Gearhead

Posts: 314
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-14-2001 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stang28965   Click Here to Email Stang28965     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have scars all over my arms from working at Weco, Any of you guys do tig welding? I have zapped myself more then a few times haha. and let me tell ya thats one hell of a zap.

IP: Logged

cynot65
Gearhead

Posts: 835
From: New York
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-15-2001 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cynot65   Click Here to Email cynot65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TIG! MIG! The closest I'll ever come to welding from now on is a Benz-O-Matic torch and a roll of flux filled solder(sp?) I'll leave that stuff to the pros and you guys are the pros.
Tony C*

------------------
65 Convertible 289 4spd
M&M Member#450

IP: Logged

macx
Journeyman

Posts: 15
From: Hermiston, OR, US
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 08-25-2001 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for macx   Click Here to Email macx     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Use small wire, like .023". The welder should have some type of basic directions, but turn both the volts and the wire feed speed down towards the lower end of the adjustments. Run about 20 cfh shielding gas flow. Make sure the metal is clean, and held closely together. Your welder will use what's called the "short arc" process, meaning the wire melts when it actually touches the metal and "shorts out". This happens very rapidly, so you get a weld bead. Hold the tip quite close to the metal, angled a little, ahead of the weld, tilted back toward the weld, so you're gun is ahead of the weld and moving "backwards" instead of pointing forwards. You can just about rest the gas shield against the work. You only want about 1/4" to 3/8" of wire sticking out of the tip. It will spatter, so you have to keep the gas shield and tip clean. On sheet metal, trigger it for just a couple seconds, then skip an inch and do another short spot.
"weave" the bead back and forth just a little but keep moving along the bead as you're weaving. Never weld back over the red melted puddle. Come back after it's cooled a little and do another series of dots. Will prevent burn-thru and minimize warping. You can experiment and bump up the wire speed (increases the welding amps) and voltage a little bit at a time until it's too hot and starts to melt thru, then back off a step or so. Do you know anybody else who can weld? Or maybe attend a night class at a Vo Tech for a little while. Or try the library for instruction books. Welding is not easy, but the mig is about the easiest of any process. It is fun and rewarding when you learn how. PS - wear long sleeves and button your shirt up under the helmet or you'll get both spattered and arc burn (like sunburn).
Enjoy! (Mark, Certified Welding Inspector, with a mig at home, too)

IP: Logged

68Mustang
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: Auburn, AL
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-25-2001 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68Mustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TIG is the best, but for the average guy you can't touch the price. Had some experience with the one down here at school, but I went and got a MIG that I play with every time I go home. Abilities have gotten better, but tight spots still give me hell. Anyways, like all the other guys said, practice, practice, and more practice.

------------------
1968 302 5-spd Fastback, Modified
1965 Coupe
1981 F-150

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2002, Steve LaRiviere


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[About M&M][Acronym Guide][Calendar of Events][Chat Room][Classified Ads] [Links]

[Members' Photos] [M&M Mug Shots] [Technical Articles][Ford Parts Number Deciphering

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [Advertise on Mustangsandmore.com] [Mustangsandmore.com T-Shirts]