The issue is this: Dynacorn is producing full replacement bodies, currently the 69 Camaro convertible, and soon to be released 67 Mustang fastback. Searching their site gives indication that they will soon do 69 Mustang Fastbacks, with the intention to eventually do all early Mustang fastbacks, probably convertibles too, as well as the Camaro's, Chevelles, etc.

Once you buy this replacement body, what do you do with it? Since kit cars have been out forever, obviously you could apply for a state VIN and title it as a kit car. What about the option of transferring the VIN from an original body to a replacement body?

What happens when you have a 67 fastback that is a total basket case that needs EVERYTHING. If you have to replace all of the frame rails, quarters, floors, roof, front aprons, etc, and do it all in your garage with your harbor freight welder, what do you have when its done? A rebuilt car with all new sheetmetal, and no Ford punched VIN's anywhere on the car.

The way I understand the law, if you were to buy a punch set, or have Marti restamp a fender apron for you, or have Glaziers stamp the apron for you, or you scab in the original fender apron VIN's, you have broken the law. But, this happens all the time and nobody complains. Why? Because you own the car, you own the VIN, you have a title with the VIN on it, and you end up with a car with the VIN on it that matches the title that you own. No fraud was commited, however, legally, you tampered with/altered a VIN.

Now enter Dynacorn's 67 fastback body. Instead of buying $4,000 in sheetmetal and spending 1000 hours welding it all together, you buy a $10,000 replacement body with DOT certified welds, and transfer the VIN on the apron to the new body. You then take the old body that you had, cut it into small pieces, and take them to the junk yard for scrap or to the landfill. The end result is that you own the car, you own the VIN, you have a title with the VIN on it, and you end up with a car with the VIN on it that matches the title that you own. No fraud was commited, however, legally, you tampered with/altered a VIN.

What is the difference?

Here are some other threads on this.

Don't fry me on this, but since the Camaro body came out first, this has been discussed a lot there... Camaro Forum, reply half way down from the company (CARS) in NC doing the manufacturing (note, link is to page 3 of 7 page thread)
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54260&page=3

BOSS 302 Forum, reference to laws
http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm

49 USC 30112-30115 (doesn't help much, but is referenced in the first link)
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/standards/chapt301.html#30112.

Dynacorn's FAQ (note first one addresses VIN)
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/faq/afmtopics.asp

I have seen numerous people who say that this is totally illegal to transfer the VIN. I know it is in Indiana and several other states. I'm still personally tracking this down, but I know that there are states that will legally allow you to do this if you own the car, have it titled in your name, and have the VIN transfer verified and inspected by an officer of the state.

If you know that it is in fact illegal in your state to do so, that is fine, please provide the code that specifies that so I don't have to look it up. However, just because it is illegal in your state doesn't mean it is illegal in all 50 states.

The codes referenced above are in the context of criminal intent, ie fraud. Again, some states DO allow you to legally transfer a VIN, I'm still looking up the state code that allow's this.

Dave & Terri

Didn't feel like reading all that Sam posted but am saving it to read later. Interesting.

Re the Eleanors, etc, doubt that a new vin would make much difference as they are getting Shelby numbers anyway.

Something to consider...

I think it can be agreed upon that it is illegal to transfer a VIN from one car to another. The example above being taking the VIN from a 428 and installing it on a car that was originally a 289 car. Each car has its own history and its own VIN. The VIN is assigned by the manufacturer to a fully assembled vehicle.

The replacement body sold by Dynacorn is just a body. It has no engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, interior, etc. It is just a body. The way I read that link above from NHTSA is that a chassis is considered an assembly that includes the engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, etc. In this context, Dynacorn is selling a replacement body that does not have a VIN nor does it require one, nor is it considered a chassis.

Based on that info above, if you now take your 428 VIN and attach it to a Dynacorn body, and then reinstall all of the original engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, etc, you have not remanufactured the vehicle and do not require a new VIN. I am making the assumption based on the fact that that letter was written in the context of trucks, and admit that the same letter may have been drastically different if it had been addressing passenger cars.

The difference I see, is that in one case, you are transferring a VIN from one car that at one time had been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history to another vehicle that hab been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history, and in the other case, you are transferring a VIN from one car that at one time had been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history to a replacement body that is essentially a clean slate, a blank canvas, with no previous history. I see a distinct difference between the two.

I don't like being told I cannot do something the right way because somebody else might do it the wrong way. If I have a rust bucket, and am able to transfer the VIN to a Dynacorn body within the legal statutes of my state, I should be able to do so. I am the caliber of person who will fully disclose that fact upon selling the vehicle, even if such disclosure diminishes the value of the vehicle. Whether or not somebody else will do the same thing should not prevent me from doing that within the limit of the law.

Opinions abound on this subject. There is the issue of what is legal or not, what should be legal or not, and what is ethical or not. Those things don't always happen to be the same.

Here's another situation to assess regarding legalities and ethics. If I rebuild a rusted out hulk with replacement parts, and weld it all up in my garage with a harbor freight special, and then sell the vehicle as-is, what happens when the new owner is driving down the highway, and my welds come apart, the car disintegrates and the new owner is killed. Am I responsible since it was my welds that were faulty? Even if I sold it as-is? I do not know. I suspect I would not be legally responsible, but ethically, I see that as my fault. Now, I know that is extreme, but how many of you have bought Mustangs with bad welds, or pop-riveted floor pans, etc? Would it not be better and safer on the future owner, particularly for inexperienced hobbyist, to be able to have a fully assembled body with DOT certified welds than run the risk of a crappy restoration coming apart on him?

Now we get back to, well, the buyer would surely notice a bad restoration and know what he was getting into. I offer the corollary, that if somebody is going to spend $100,000, $150,000, $200,000 on a Shelby or Boss 302, etc, they had better be able to inspect it and recognize if it is in fact an original body or a Dynacorn body. If you can't make that determination, you should either have enough money that you don't care, or IMHO you have no business buying that car. Caveat Emptor.

Edit: I just got off the phone with the Virginia DMV. According to Jamie, at 800-435-5137, if there is no "certificate of origin" issued for the replacement body, I am allowed under VA law to transfer the VIN to the replacement body. Once the work is complete, I can have a state inspector/investigator come out to verify the work complete. The local investigator for Virginia Beach is Cassandra Hardy at 757-455-0881.