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Author
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Topic: I have had it with P/S
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 09:20 PM
   
OK, this is it, my P/S hose got on my Header again, so what can I do to by-pass the system, and still be able to drive the car??? I've had all the BS out of this I want to deal with now, so if you can point me in the right direction, it's getting done ASAP! Thanks for any knowledge you can pass on the me, it's greatly appreciated.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
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exlocal
Gearhead Posts: 1168
From: hacienda hts., CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 10:17 PM
Sorry, don't know the specifics, but a manual box and a LARGE diameter steering wheel, you'll need it. Welcome to my world, 3 pedals and no power steering!------------------
reliving youth
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 10:23 PM
Thank you Sir. Just my luck too, I have a 13" aftermarket steering wheel. I can live with it being hard to steer, anything beats fighting fires in your engine bay. The way it is now, I either park it and wait for new lines, or take the belt off the pump and try my luck.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21846
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-16-2006 10:35 PM
If the 68 is like the 65 system. Then you'll be fine. My car had power steering. I just removed the everything and never changed out the steering box. It's really not that bad even parking it. Remove the belt for now and drive it.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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68F100
Gearhead Posts: 2803
From: Burlington, Iowa
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 03-16-2006 10:36 PM
My 68 F-100 has 12 inch wide tires on the front and I put a smaller diameter Grant wheel on it. I hate those tractor steering wheels. No PS either. Believe it or not, it is easier to steer with this setup than with the stock steering wheel and stock wheels.I don't need girlyman steering on my truck, I can't see why you would need it on a little Mustang. You might want to change to the manual box though because you'll be fighting the pump.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21846
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-16-2006 10:39 PM
This is all you need,http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MPFMP&Product_Code=00649&Category_Code=adapter ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 10:39 PM
Thanks Men, I'll drop the belt for now. I have 60's in front also, but I think it will be OK. Thanks again, finally some good news today.  ------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 10:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
This is all you need,http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Scree n=PROD&Store_Code=MPFMP&Product_Code=00649&Category_Code=adapter
Thanks Ron, that's exactly what I need .------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21846
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-16-2006 10:46 PM
That and money  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 28330
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-16-2006 11:23 PM
Have you ever considered making yourself a stainless braided (Russell, Earls, Aeroquip, etc) hose?
I make them all the time for the Mustangs I restify.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 11:49 PM
Never did Alex. I've been dealing with this problem ever since the last people did my R&P. I even twisted the top hose 180* to try to keep it off them, but it's just been the biggest PITA about this car. I just went ahead and unhook4ed the hoses from the pump and rack, and it steers OK, but it's a world of difference. I've wanted to get rid of it ever since the first fire, but tonight sealed it's fate. Hopefully I freed up a couple of HP too. Thanks to everyone who took the time, it's greatly appreciated.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 7612
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-17-2006 06:25 AM
Run a two piece 70 pressure hose that runs below. Doing that on my 68. Have done it before and there's no hose looped up on the shock tower waiting to get fried. The bracket that supports the hoses get remounted below. On my 68 it is now mounted to facilitate the loop style. Remounting it low will enable it to work with the 70 hoses.
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 08:21 AM
Thanks, but the lines are gone. I'm going with what Ron posted for me, I think it will be for the best. Just outta curiosity, how long do they bleed, I went at least a mile and still saw a trail of P/S fluid when I got back. ------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
John Z
Gearhead Posts: 494
From: Morgantown, WV
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-17-2006 08:47 AM
68Coupe
I'm missing something. One of your posts indicates you paid someone to do a R&P conversion. Shouldn't they be responsible for routing the hose to miss the headers? Or did you add them after the install. I'm not sure how the power to manual converter for a stock system would help with an after market R&P????
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exlocal
Gearhead Posts: 1168
From: hacienda hts., CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 09:02 AM
Isn't a power rack and pinion have the hydraulics built into the rack unit? Thought you had an older original type power steering.------------------
reliving youth
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 09:20 AM
To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what kind it is. My Chilton has info on 2 different styles(rotary type and power cylinder) and mine looks to be the later. The top hose on the pump stuck out so far, it ran right beside the #5 Header tube, and it was a nightmare trying to keep it off it. On my test drive, it seemed to have more HP when I got on the gas, so I'm going manual just for that reason alone now. Sorry if I get some of this stuff wrong, I seem to learn more about a part AFTER it dies.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 11:01 AM
Is there ANY way at all to get my steering any looser??? It's down right scary right now, and I'm sure it can't be too healthy on the gear box either, right??? I hate to do more damage to anything, because it's 2 weeks before I cant get that converion kit. Thanks for any info you can give on this.EDIT: I do have some 14x70's I can stick on there too, if it will help any. ------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears [This message has been edited by 68 Coop (edited 03-17-2006).]
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1091
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-17-2006 11:33 AM
A Safety Notice...The only thing connecting a power steering control valve to the steering gear box is a little ball-stud that is held in place with spring pressure.
If you put too much steering pressure on that linkage the ball-stud can pop out of the control valve, effectively disconnecting your steering wheel from the steering linkage.
I've seen lots of control valves with the ball-stud popped out when guys were trying to separate the gearbox from the control valve with a pickle fork. If a pickle fork can pop it out that easily then excessive steering force could do the same.
What prevents the excessive force in a properly operating system is the power cylinder that pushes and pulls the steering linkage. The ball stud is only supposed to send a signal to the cylinder as to which way to push or pull, the ball stud isn't designed to do the pushing and pulling.
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joesgt281
Journeyman Posts: 26
From: Katy, TX
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 03-17-2006 11:49 AM
Is there an internal box option for early Stangs like other cars have rather than the drag-link version?
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 12:02 PM
Thanks Scott, I'm gonna park it till I get the conversion. My luck, it'll pop at the most wrong time possible. Thanks for the info.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 1213
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-17-2006 01:28 PM
I'm confused as well.If you have a rack and pinion set up then you shouldn't even have the hydraulic slave cylinder that attaches to the centre link and you wouldn't need that attachment that scoop posted????Also if its a power steering rack doesn't it use the power steering fluid for lube??------------------
68 J-Code,Sprint,306 4 speed,4.11s 13.69@101...............
66 coupe 289 4 speed, 3.20 cruiser http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy2.html
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John Z
Gearhead Posts: 494
From: Morgantown, WV
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-17-2006 01:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 68 Coop:
Is there ANY way at all to get my steering any looser??? It's down right scary right now, and I'm sure it can't be too healthy on the gear box either, right??? I hate to do more damage to anything, because it's 2 weeks before I cant get that converion kit. Thanks for any info you can give on this.EDIT: I do have some 14x70's I can stick on there too, if it will help any.
The conversion part will not reduce steering effort. Smaller tires with higher pressure will reduce friction. The larger diameter stock steering wheel provides more leverage. Same thing with a manual steering box. The gear ratio in the power box is 16:1 while the manual box has 19:1.
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 633
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 03-17-2006 02:30 PM
William,I ruined 3 sets of hoses and had it with PS about has much as you do. Before junking the whole thing I decided to run the hoses straight down from the pump and right next to the left lower control arm pivot(suspension) along the oil pan to the control valve.
That was eight years ago and never heard from it again. If you want pics, send me an email:
[email protected] Whatever you decide, do not disconnect the PS system to steer on the PS control valve you'd be asking for serious troubles !!
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 03:40 PM
I'm going by memory from 5 years ago, but I thought they said the rack was bad. Now from the responses I'm getting, I'm starting to believe they said control valve. I took some pics, gonna try to post them, and see if you guys can see it good enough to determine what it is. Pierre, I will send you an e-mail for the pics, because this is starting to be more of a problem than re-routing the hose. Anyway, here goes. 5 pics at 800x600 so I hope they just show the lint to click on. ------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears [This message has been edited by 68 Coop (edited 03-17-2006).]
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-17-2006 04:00 PM
I can't get image hosting to respond right now, so I'll try them later at work. I want to thak EVERYONE for your time and info, but from the looks of it, I'm better off to just use it and route the lines better. Thanks guys, I really do appreciate this, and I hope no one feels I've wasted their time.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
zieber
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Central Coast, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-17-2006 04:10 PM
My '68 started with manual steering so I got all the power steering pieces from a junk yard including the gearbox and put them on. Mainly I seemed to lose steering response but I also could do without all the fluid so I put the manual stuff back on except for the gearbox. I think the steering effort is more with the PS box. I learned that the steering parts can be changed out easily and that manual steering is better anyway.
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1091
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-17-2006 11:23 PM
William,
I'm pretty sure that what you have is typical Ford Mustang steering linkage, which is completely different from a Rack & Pinion steering setup.
Although Rack & Pinion has been available for older mustangs for a few years now, generally it is custom made, and expensive. If someone added it to your car they would have spent between $1000 - $2000 to add it.
Sometimes we all throw around these terms and then confuse each other. A steering 'rack' is not the same as steering linkage, just like exhasut headers are not the same as exhaust manifolds.
I think some of these guys have excellent suggestions for that hose routing, but if you want manual then that conversion piece is the right thing to do.
By the way, I received your letter. Thank you!
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-18-2006 12:17 AM
Well, I'm 99.9% sure it's not R&P now Scott, so I guess it's time to buy a hose. I am going to go manual in the near future, but I want to drive the car now. I liked the difference in HP without the pump, big difference too. Glad you got your mail.------------------
William
The easiest way to find something lost, is to buy a replacement. 68 Coupe
289
C4
2:79 rear gears
IP: Logged |
zieber
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Central Coast, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 05-10-2006 04:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by zieber:
I learned that the steering parts can be changed out easily and that manual steering is better anyway.
That said, I've decided the manual steering is too much effort and I'm going to put the power steering back in.
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sprcoop
Gearhead Posts: 731
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 05-10-2006 06:21 PM
I like my power steering. I've got about a 1 drop per 2 drives (in my garage anyway) leak but I'm not ready to ditch it yet. I would love to get rid of that drop though.
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adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5577
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-10-2006 08:13 PM
not sure what your setup looks like, but couldn't you just tether the hose off to the side with something to keep it clear?------------------
"Be yourself
everyone else is taken"
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/adragon8u.html
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Stan
Gearhead Posts: 159
From: Castro Valley, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 05-10-2006 09:27 PM
Like others, I don't have power steering on my 65 FB and actually don't want it! I think it clutters up the engine compartment. I have a 14" Grant wheel and yes, it's a little hard to turn but it's a 40 year old car! If I wanted a car that steered like a new one, I wouldn't own a classic Mustang. Now, let me get down from my soapbox. LOL
Stan
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 262
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 05-10-2006 11:23 PM
my '69 automatic didn't have p/s, my 73 does, and my new '65 doesn't (it's a manual)....I like the "road feel" of non-power better....I'm running a 15" steering wheel....195/70/14 on the '69 and 235/70/15's on the '65.....sure, it's a little harder to steer, but as long as you remember to get the wheels turning before you try to steer, you can hardly notice it....(no, my nickname isn't Popeye )....
also, doing away with the p/s REALLY cleans up the engine bay.....------------------
Without life there could be no music, but without music, there can be no life.
1973 Convertible, 1965 A Code 4spd coupe, Past: 1969 GT, 1967 6cyl coupe, 1968 coupe
Two Rivers Ford, Parts Dept., Nashville, TN
www.geocities.com/jezebeldream
www.geocities.com/my73conv
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 60
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 05-11-2006 08:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by exlocal:
... Welcome to my world, 3 pedals and no power steering!
That's what I'm talking about! ------------------
Bryan - 1965 coupe / front bench seat / 289 / T5.
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ewokeric
Gearhead Posts: 236
From: woodbridge, va united states
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 05-12-2006 05:49 PM
i bought one from autozone and fryed it in two in 10 minute drive. I bought one from cjpony and it still was very close so i used a flare to flare adpter from a hvac store with a 90 degree fitting and have it turning straight down witch missed the exhast. I do have a loop hangging down uder the car but it is not low enough to cause a problem and no frying hose on exhastthat is what worked for me ------------------
68 mustang coupe(california special)not real though but looks it(will be nice) 351w/c4
My 68 Coupe
[url=http://mustangsamdmore.50megs.com/ewokeric.html]
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4202
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 05-12-2006 07:30 PM
I did something similar to that, except I turned the top hose 90* and cut all the extra slack out of it. It fits tight against everything but the Headers now.
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