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Author
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Topic: T and L Engines
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-14-2005 02:32 PM
 
I'm seriously considering placing an order with these guys for a 347 stroker. Does anyone know them or know OF them?http://www.tandlengines.com/ Thanks Gregg ------------------
68 coupe, red on black. http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/kinger44.html
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-14-2005 02:36 PM
Looks like a good buy,ask them how much more for forged pistons.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-14-2005 02:43 PM
What do forged pistons do for me? I was told that if I don't plan to NOS it or supercharge it I don't really need them - is that true?Thanks Gregg
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 12-14-2005 02:49 PM
Seems they know what they are doing. If you look at their race engines tab, you'll notice that they claim to provide the engines for many NASCAR and race teams. Pretty good reputation if they are supplying engines for those guys.------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-14-2005 04:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kinger44:
What do forged pistons do for me? I was told that if I don't plan to NOS it or supercharge it I don't really need them - is that true?Thanks Gregg
Gregg, I'm no expert on this subject. The machine shop that built my motor. Highly recomended forged pistons,because the are lighter means the motor can rev and little faster,and can take alittle more abuse before they break.
That was good enough for me. I was just making a suggestion and see how much more they;d want for forged pistons. 
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-14-2005 04:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kinger44:
What do forged pistons do for me? I was told that if I don't plan to NOS it or supercharge it I don't really need them - is that true?Thanks Gregg
Once you are already spending that much money, does it really pay to be pennywise and dollar foolish for a couple bucks more?
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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-14-2005 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Once you are already spending that much money, does it really pay to be pennywise and dollar foolish for a couple bucks more?
Thats the exact same advice you gave me too. 
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-14-2005 07:41 PM
I think they will run a little cooler or transfer heat better or something like that also. Because the molecules are tighter together in theory it sounds good. I?ve been told (I never experimented with it) that you would get preignition with cast before the forged pistons would.
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-19-2005 04:28 PM
Well, I ordered the engine today. Feb 17th it ships. Thanks for all the advice guys.Gregg
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69 Sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 2814
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-19-2005 04:36 PM
So, how much was it, if you don't mind my asking?
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-19-2005 05:01 PM
Well, their advertised price is $3,650. I had them make it pretty much turnkey with MSD distributor, 8mm wires and looms, fuel pump, Holley 650, hi torque starter, and alum water pump. I also added the roller cam upgrade. Crated and air freighted to Toronto the total price is $5,000. This includes full dyno test with results. Should turn 420 hp, 440 ft lbs[This message has been edited by kinger44 (edited 12-19-2005).]
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69 Sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 2814
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-19-2005 06:41 PM
That aint bad. Is that including taxes if there are any?
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-19-2005 08:30 PM
They are in North Carolina, I am in Canada. No local taxes charged by them. I do not have to pay duty, but will have to pay our wonderful Canadian taxes when it crosses the border.
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Wicked-Toy
Gearhead Posts: 252
From: Richmond, VA USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-20-2005 08:13 AM
I have been looking seriously at them for the 347 I want for my 66 Conv project. I freind used them for the 383 in his 73 Corvette and was very pleased. They are close enough that I would drove down and pick it up. The $5000 price for a turnkey motor of this quality is pretty good.------------------
Scott Akom
65 Coupe (Modified)
68 Coupe (Son's)
2000 GT Conv. (Wifes)
1987 GT Conv. (Son's)
1966 Project Conv.[URL=http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/3845/65dsde2.jpg
www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/WickedToy.html
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ericcasas
Journeyman Posts: 99
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005
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posted 12-20-2005 12:39 PM
That's a lot of ponies for such a small carb. Sounds nice!-E ------------------
http://ericcasas.mustangsandmore.ws
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-22-2005 02:01 AM
Sounds like a very good deal to me. Thats more power then my 351w is making.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-01-2006 05:35 PM
A quick update. The motor dyno'd out at 425 hp, 450 torque - a little more than estimated - don't you just hate that?! Ships tomorrow! Gregg
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sprcoop
Gearhead Posts: 780
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-03-2006 05:58 PM
Bummer dude. Be a man and suck it up.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-03-2006 06:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sprcoop:
Bummer dude. Be a man and suck it up.
LOL  Those are great numbers, I wished my 351w made that kind of power. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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Poes Fords
Gearhead Posts: 178
From: Medford, OR USA
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 03-04-2006 01:19 AM
I have been looking @ that motor for quite awhile now. Sounds like a great deal. Just another idea to bounce around in my head. Jason.------------------
1964 Falcon 302, 4 speed
1977 Ford F-150 swb 4x4
1966 Mustang "C" code coupe, just sold to my dad
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-11-2006 02:32 PM
The good news is the engine arrived in Michigan Tuesday. The bad news is that the freight company smashed the crate right off of it and I have damage. To add injury to insult, my receiver there signed for it without looking at it and now the freight company says they are not liable.Looks like mainly superficial stuff - valve covers dented, oil filter dented, plug wires partially cut. BUT the MSD distributor is tilted slightly. I went there on Thursday and it appears that the engine rolled over. No telling what has happened inside. As of yesterday the freight company agreed to ship it back to NC and then back to Mich at their expense. At least we can get it torn down and evaluated. Then we can fight over the costs. Just a real shame and is throwing the timing of my project off. T and L folks have been great about it, standing up to the shipping company etc. Will update more as it happens. Gregg good news is that the Smiths radiator is there and looks VERY cool. The Dynamic Converters C4 and torque converter arrived safely as well. [This message has been edited by kinger44 (edited 03-11-2006).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-11-2006 02:39 PM
Gregg, that really SUCKS! What a waste of good parts. I hate it when product gets damaged do to careless handling. My guys at work know to take their time. I'd rather pay them for extra hours then pay to replace something. We can't ship Mattress on normal frieght because they can't not handle it without damage, that is their words not mine.I can't wait to hear how it runs. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-11-2006 02:44 PM
Thanks Ron, yeah it was a really big disappointment. The rad got lost by UPS for over 2 weeks and only made it cause we followed up. Even the tranny box got bashed a bit but only up at the top where there were just packing materials.Does nobody in this world care about doing their job right anymore?
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-11-2006 02:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kinger44:
Does nobody in this world care about doing their job right anymore?
NO I don't think there is 
I've watched these shippers load and handle product. I don't know how or why they get away with it? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-12-2006 08:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
NO I don't think there is
I've watched these shippers load and handle product. I don't know how or why they get away with it?
It's because nowadays no one is "corrected" for doing something wrong. When I was a youngster and didn't follow directions, I was "corrected" by my folks, the neighbor, or any adult how witnessed the act. Nowadays, if a person does something wrong, they are simply told "You know you shouldn't do that" and that's the end of it. Just what folks, THAT ISN'T ENOUGH TO STOP THE POOR BEHAVIOR!... there are HR folks, Union folks and "politically correct" folks who don't correct anyone for fear of "mental scaring" of the child/employee....... what a bunch of crap!!  When I was in grade school, my folks had a paddle and so did my school teacher -- and they both used them! Now society says we just, "need to to talk to them".... problem is, 'they' aren't listening. Like my mom would say, "MAYBE THIS WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION!" The point to my rant here is - apparently Society won't allow that type of "correction" these days. Our society is either destined to accept the rampant lack of respect toward their job and the things that belong to someone else OR figure out a way of "correcting" this poor attitude of basic disregard towards others..... (I'm sounding more like my grandpappy everyday! What's up with that?!) Ryan
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 1069
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 03-12-2006 10:59 AM
A friend of mine bought a similiar motor from T&L and loves it. He had a 331 and blew it up. It is in a 66 Cyclone he loves the torque his dynoed at 418hp and 445 torque he got rpm intake and used his carb. his has forged pistons and H beam rods Shipped to his door was 4200 he got their hydraulic cam. It has been in now for about 5 months He will be at Carlisle this summer with it. Very cool guys to deal with!------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous, Dynomax ceramic headers WCZ rated-T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 RWHP@5800rpm 300 tq NA 385rwhp 380 w 75 shot 13.11 @111mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed BBK and edelbrock 70mm mass and throttlebody, 88 GT (FiveOfastback's ride)GT 40 X Track Heat, BBK headers X pipe 5 spd 296 RWHP 315 RWTQ Red and Silver
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gmliebau
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port St. Lucie, FL
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-12-2006 11:16 AM
After hearing about this, I've decided that when I order my motor I will pick it up. A decent drive from South Florida to North Carolina, but it'll save money and a lot of heartache.
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-12-2006 11:23 AM
Not a bad thought, but I don't want to overly alarm you either. According to T&L this is only the 2nd shipping problem they've had in quite some time. They ship about 1.5 - 2 motors each day of the year, so it's a pretty small percentage.But if you have that option, it sounds like a good plan.
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J from VA
Journeyman Posts: 20
From: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Registered: May 2005
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posted 03-12-2006 12:14 PM
compression ratio can come into play on your forged vs cast questions, and with compression comes gas issues....tolerances are stricter on forged....think of forged as custom made vs cast , which is mass produced
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 1069
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 03-12-2006 02:39 PM
The compression on these motors is right at 10 to 1 With the dart pro cnc heads and pump gas shouldn't be a problem unless you plan a blower!
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-12-2006 02:53 PM
"Did a good job of packing it too! Good enough to survive the way UPS treated the poor box. Damn thing has a couple HUGE holes in it. But radiator is A-OK!
Thanks Ron!
Luke "This is a quote from Luke about a package I just sent. Grandpa Ryan I agree with all you said,at least this one time I do.  Gregg, sorry to take away from your post. This kind of thing drives mt crazy. I don't yell at people. But if one of our guys damage a product and it could have been avoided they do and will get an ear full. So far in the last year I've two walk off because they said they need to be told what to do???? T&L seems like a fine company hang in there.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-16-2006 04:10 PM
They are uncrating the motor now, it arrived fine, my guys crated the heck out of it. They are saving the crate to use to send back to me.
He expects to get it onto a stand tonight, fully analyzed, fixed, dyno'd and on it's way back to me by about Tuesday. He is very doubtful that anything inside is hurt. Unless it was dropped hard on the end of the crank, he says there's not much to hurt. Even the distributor area (which is damaged)is hard to hurt inside. They have had these setups in NASCAR engines that hit the wall at 200 mph, sheer the distributor right off and not damage anything inside. Of course they will do all the inspections etc just to be sure.
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mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 1343
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-16-2006 08:51 PM
Better to be safe than sorry!Hopefully there's nothing seriously damaged and they get it back to you quickly.------------------
68 J-Code,Sprint,306 4 speed,4.11s 13.69@101...............
66 coupe 289 4 speed, 3.20 cruiser http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy2.html
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-27-2006 02:30 PM
Well the motor is repaired, re-dyno'd and shipping back to me today. They have been great to work with - even as busy as they are.I just hope it gets back to me in one piece this time. They are using the crate my guys built to ship it back. Nothing wrong internally, just all the visible stuff on the outside.
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kinger44
Gearhead Posts: 376
From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 03-31-2006 11:39 AM
It's finally here and in one piece. Now to wait for the car to be ready for it.  [This message has been edited by kinger44 (edited 03-31-2006).]
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gmliebau
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port St. Lucie, FL
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-31-2006 06:22 PM
Aah. Isn't she a beauty?! I can't wait to order mine. I'm sure you will, but please let us know how things go with the install.
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