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Author Topic:   solid lifter question
sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3406
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 11-07-2005 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I've asked this before but don't remember if I did or not. I know some of you guys like Ron and Scott are big fans of the solid lifter cams, such as the 270S.

Why is that? What does the 270S give you over the 270H? Is it something you can quantify or something you just like better?

How often do you have to pull the covers to set the valve lash?

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4692
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 11-07-2005 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valve events are quicker with mechanical lifters and lobes can be ground accordingly. Solids are lighter as well. Lash adjustment is a great tuning tool

You may need to adjust the lash a few times during the first 1000 miles as everything is seating in, following that it's at oil change intervals. You'll find that if everything is spot-on, they move very little if at all.

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

12.58/110 on street tires, more to come;)

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4692
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 11-07-2005 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
Is it something you can quantify or something you just like better?

Yes and yes

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

12.58/110 on street tires, more to come;)

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21741
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2005 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sam, I've never used a solid cam but I will next time. Every one has told me you not only get alittle more lift out them,but adjusting the lash can add some good power.Also you never have pump up with them. They move the valves alittle faster too. All around a better choice for a hot street or street/strip car.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

BIG Boss hood scoop
My Pics

If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3406
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 11-07-2005 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
Yes and yes

You had to know that I was going to come with how do you quantify it? 2-3 HP on the dyno with tuning? .05 seconds on the 1/4 with tuning?

Not that it matters much, as I just like the sound.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2899
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-07-2005 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll adjust mine once or twice a summer, and I abuse the heck out of the car. It sees 7k rpm multiple times pretty much every time it comes out of the garage.

As long as you use polylocks, the lash won't move much at all. More often than not, the variences in lash you'll see in going over the valves will be your own... as a person has to be very careful when doing this. If the lobe isn't 100% on its base circle, the lash will be off.

I ALWAYS set the lash, and place a small piece of paper towel in each rocker as I go. When I'm done, I go back and re-check each one.... taking the paper towel pieces out as I go. When all the bits of towel are gone, I'm done. Chances are, when rechecking, I'll find a couple rockers that weren't quite right.

To set the lash:

I'll set the feeler gage between the rocker and valve tip, tighten the rocker down against it finger tight. Then, back the adjuster off around 1/8 turn. Loosely tighten the set screw down against the rocker stud. Then, tighten the polylock down until the lash is right.

Backing off the polylock a little and running the setscrew down before doing the final tightening really locks things in tight.

Hotrod 289/302's EASILY rev to the point where a solid cam makes a significant power difference. Plus, solids will make more power across the entire powerband than an equivalent hydraulic. Hydraulic lifters push on a cushion of oil, which creates its own 'lash' and hinders initial valve action.

Sometimes hydraulic cams will have a mystery 'tick' that will not adjust out, and will never go away. They can be caused by a number of problems, but you won't have that with a solid.

Good Luck!

Go solid!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21741
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2005 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a lot of great info here,

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/

I love the term, "HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT"

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

BIG Boss hood scoop
My Pics

If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3406
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 11-07-2005 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stupid question, but do they adjust the same with roller rockers?

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21741
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2005 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes they do
Sam what cam and motor set up are you thinking of using? My only regret with my 351w build is that I didn't go alittle more aggressive or even a stroker. ALWAYS WANT MORE!

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

BIG Boss hood scoop HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics

If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3406
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 11-07-2005 07:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ron, here you go...

I have a set of 289 heads with stainless 351W valves, hardened seats, new valve guides, screw in studs, Comp springs matched for the 270S (been thinking 270S for awhile now), and push-rod guide plates. When it was all said and done I could have gone with an aftermarket set of heads for the same price, but there is always fun in running something of your own design.

Also have a C9OX intake (similar to early Shelby intakes), and a Holly 725 Shelby replacement carb. Probably overkill on the carb.

As for the bottom end, I'm still undecided. I'm debating between the FRPP stock 5.0 short block for 1200 bucks and put in the 270S, or the FRPP 347 stroker for 3100 bucks with 270S or maybe bump up to the 282S. If I go with the stroker, then I probably don't have enough breath in my heads, so I'm hesitant to go that route with them. 28 or 50 oz imbalance is moot, whichever it turns out being I'll put the correct parts on. I have a billet steel 28 oz flywheel already which would bolt up to the 347, but then again, that's a lot of dough to sink into a fair weather/Sunday driver engine, and I can buy a lot of other parts if I go with the stock 5.0 short block.

Either set-up will get some ceramic coated headers.

The 289 heads have smaller combustion chambers than the aftermarket 302 heads, or even stock 302 heads, so I'll have higher compression without having to use pop-up pistons.

I don't have time or desire to take it to the track, so its more about picking something fun and peppy and easily reliable (hence the desire for the crate short block).

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21741
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2005 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sam, if your going to the track or not. If you like having power. Then go with the stroker and the 282s cam if your budget allows. Then you'll need some new heads too. I know it never ends. Boy do I know all about it.
Or that short block with the 270s would be a great set up for the price. You'd have a real fun and mean sounding street car.
BTW, I don't think thats to much carb for either set up. Those motors love RPM's.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics

If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either.

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Scott H
Gearhead

Posts: 1038
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 11-07-2005 09:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott H   Click Here to Email Scott H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
Sometimes hydraulic cams will have a mystery 'tick' that will not adjust out, and will never go away. They can be caused by a number of problems, but you won't have that with a solid.

I've run into this before, hence the desire to follow MoneyMaker's adice and go solid.

Currently working on a 270s install for my 66 GT A-code coupe. Gonna rump better than a stock HiPo! Balanced, port-matched, better cam, electronic ignition, tri-y's, C90X style intake, roller tip rockers. Topped off with a real sweet 4100 carb.

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Jake11
Gearhead

Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005

posted 11-07-2005 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jake11   Click Here to Email Jake11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Get some feeler guages and an umbrella.
Solids are better if you don't mind a little
"NOISE". If click clickety click don't bother
you, then go for it! Just make sure you don't
set the EXT. tight.

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