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Author
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Topic: Car wants to die under heavy braking??
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-03-2005 09:13 PM
  
Hello, new guy here.
My car is a 66 2+2 that I've rebuilt to Open track and Vintage race. The engine is pretty much what the 65 R Model was plus a tad more  I've had this problem since I made the car road worthy. Under heavy braking the car wants to die unless I blip the throttle a few times. What are some of the things that might cause/cure this.
The carb is a Holley 4150, 600cfm DP with mechanical secondaries. Front jets are 66, the rears are 73 and the squirters are both 25. Orig the squirters were 28 Front and 32 Rear,but after the dyno pulls I dropped them down. That was last April. This problem existed before the dyno runs also.
I know to check the float levels again, just wanting to know if there's other things to look at.
I have never been good with carbs so I'm open to everything! Thanks for any help
Mark ------------------
Mark Sellers
1966 Mustang 2+2 set up for Open Track and Vintage Racing.
Details here:http://www.cardomain.com/ride/667160
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1038
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-03-2005 10:06 PM
You don't have a power brake booster do you?
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-03-2005 10:51 PM
No power brakes.
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exlocal
Gearhead Posts: 1121
From: hacienda hts., CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 11-04-2005 01:59 AM
Idle rpms too slow for your setup?------------------
reliving youth
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 4040
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027 M&M# 4256
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 11-04-2005 06:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by silverblueBP:
I know to check the float levels again,Thanks for any help
Mark
That would be my first guess.------------------
William "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3523
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-04-2005 11:45 AM
That would be my guess also. Something that I have done is run a small piece of hose connecting the two air vents. I then cut half of the hose away at the center to allow air in. This gives more travel for any fuel that might slosh up through the air vent. Take a look a Holley for marine use and you will get an idea of what I?m talking about.------------------
Ed S. 68 S-code FB GT 4spd(now C6)/3.25 PS PDB
68 J-code(now 289) Cp Sprint"B" C4/3L00-9" PDB PS AC Bla-Bla-Bla
99 F150 XLT Ext/cab, 4X4, 5.4L, 3L55
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-04-2005 08:30 PM
68S is right on. Typicall "Holly" problem.
You also might try setting the level in the
bowls 1/16" lower than the sight holes.
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-04-2005 08:46 PM
Thanks for the great ideas, I'll try them out this weekend!------------------
Mark Sellers
1966 Mustang 2+2 set up for Open Track and Vintage Racing.
Details here:http://www.cardomain.com/ride/667160
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 11-07-2005 08:11 PM
I'm anxious to hear the outcome of this problem. I have a 4150 on my car and have the same problem under very heavy panic braking. I installed the carb new and haven't done anything to it because it does start and run so good other than that problem. Keep us posted.------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 896
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-07-2005 09:25 PM
May want to try jet extensions and a different type float that goes with the extensions. Also what was mentioned about the vent tube spilling over.------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous, Dynomax ceramic headers WC-T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 RWHP@5800rpm 300 tq NA 385rwhp 380 w 75shot 13.11 @111mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed, 88 GT 5 spd 77k original miles Red and Silver
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-07-2005 10:12 PM
Didn't get a chance to work on the carb yet, but I will be getting the jet extensions and add the air tubes.
I'll post the results if it warms up enough to drive it! With no heater or door windows it'll be a little brisk Thanks again for the help Mark
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ericcasas
Journeyman Posts: 76
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005
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posted 11-08-2005 10:26 AM
I was actually going to ask if you were currently running jet extensions. If so, you might want to try taking them out. They are designed more so for hard launching so when the nose goes up, it can still pull gas from the back end of the bowl. Under hard braking, the nose goes down. That could leave your extensions starving for gas. Just a thought.-Eric
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-08-2005 09:04 PM
Beat way to solve problem.
Take the Holly off, look at it real good.
Find a large round can. put the Holly in the
large round can. If your gonna actually
drive the car, and stop fast, or expect it
to be driveable by your wife or girlfrind,
the "Holly" is going to cause you grief.
My opinion.
Look at carter, or the old Ford stuff.4100
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 11-09-2005 08:54 AM
I couldn't disagree more. I've been very happy with the Holley since I installed it several years ago. It starts right up on the first try even after sitting for weeks or months. It only dies when you stop very very hard like a panic stop. Even then it starts right up again. I'm sure there's an easy fix for this. My wife doesn't ever drive the car. The car is fun to drive but it's not comfortable to drive. Manual steering. manual disk brakes and a Toploader. ------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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Fastback Nation
Gearhead Posts: 130
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 11-09-2005 11:06 AM
This is a common Holly problem, as was stated in previous posts. Any carb that stalls under heavy deceleration should be considered to have a flaw. There are so many others that perform great without fuel slosh problems. Holly makes a good carb, but it seems people by them for the name and the old-school mystique about them.
Since you have the Holly already, go with Ed's (68Scode) recommendation, it should help. But if ever swapping, I personally think it's hard to beat the Carter design (Ford used it all over the place) which is currently under the Edelbrock name with my personal favorite: the Thunder series AVS, great carb and great perfomance. Just my 2 cents
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-09-2005 04:38 PM
Just a quick update,
I went out and checked the float levels and the rear was just pouring out when I removed the sight plug. Adjusted it back to where it just wanted to come out and tightened it all back up. A test drive will have to wait, too cold without heat and windows!!
Looked at adding a tube and noticed I can only get one on the rear air vent tube, the air horn on the front won't allow a tube to go on it. If the float adj doesn't fix it, them I'll add a tube over the rear vent and see what happens.Jake11, I'll pass on tossing my carb. This is the first problem I've had and it's worked beautiful except for this one problem! Thanks again Guys,
Mark
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-16-2005 12:07 AM
Then at least, keep a good sized fire extinguisher in the car.
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 624
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-16-2005 12:22 PM
Holley sells fuel bowl baffles for front and rearbowl. You could try one on the rear bowl at first ?
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silverblueBP
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Bend, Oregon
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-16-2005 01:06 PM
This carb came with the vent whistles, front and rear.
Still trying things!------------------
Mark Sellers
1966 Mustang 2+2 set up for Open Track and Vintage Racing.
Details here:www.cardomain.com/ride/667160
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ericcasas
Journeyman Posts: 76
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005
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posted 11-16-2005 04:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jake11:
Then at least, keep a good sized fire extinguisher in the car.
>8D >8D >8D HAHAHHAHAHAH O_O This definitely sounds like a fuel slosh problem. I'd try,like Pierre said, the baffles but I would do the primary side first. (If you are stopping hard, inertia says that the primaries would be most likely to starve, where the secondaries would have all kinds of fuel at the jets and vice versa for hard launches.) -E [This message has been edited by ericcasas (edited 11-16-2005).]
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-17-2005 03:29 AM
Ha Ha Ha The problem is DE FUEL is flowing into the
carb too much, man. When trying to stop fast
in the old days, we would keep one foot on
de gas pedal and the other on de brake. That
way you can keep it running with the holly.
Don't ever let "Wife/ Girlfriend" behind
the wheel. If you want to keep her.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3523
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-17-2005 10:50 PM
I?ve been using a Holley here and there for 20 years and as long as it?s set up right I haven?t had a problem. Before you go and spend the money on the baffles, try the tube trick I mentioned. If the fuel sloshes up and out the vent there is a good chance that fuel will just dump through the ventures and cut you off.
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-18-2005 03:53 AM
I've used "hollys fer 35yr's and their still
a POS. Back in the "old days" I kept 5 of them in rotation, so I could drive my 57ch to
work when I wanted to. They work fine for
WOT work, no doubt. They can also do ok on
a grandma driver that only putt's around.
If you lean on your ride, or have to make
sudden unexpected manuvers, holly just won't
do. A carter makes almost as much power. Is
trouble free. Won't stall on braking or any
kinda weird driving, unlike a holly. Also it
won't leak like a holly. Holly's are good
carbs for some uses.
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-18-2005 04:01 AM
I will tell you what a holly is called
in my trade. The common term is "flood-o-matic.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3523
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-19-2005 03:56 PM
Never had a problem with the Holley after it was properly adjusted for the car and never had it cut out under sudden maneuvers! 
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21741
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-19-2005 06:09 PM
Wow Jake, I've been so much more happy with the two holleys I've used. The 700dp I use now has never flooded do to hard stopping,not a problem starting even without a choke. Flooding sure sounds like high floats to me. I've talked two friends into trading in there carters for holleys neither have any regrets.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-20-2005).]
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 207
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-20-2005 07:20 PM
Always glad to hear that there is someone
that likes a holley after they take it out
of the box. :-)
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