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Author
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Topic: Roller perch review--WOW!!!
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 09-26-2005 12:27 AM
 
Overview: Fits well after a small mod to clear the shock bolts. This makes a night and day difference to my car! I would recommend anyone to buy or make ones to add to their car. It��s that different.  I won��t need any re-alignment, either. The difference is dramatic, but may be the same with brass ones too. This is the only mod I��ve made recently and it is a doozie. Your results may vary, and I��m a consumer, not a seller. Driving impressions: Woweee!  It��s like I added a whole new front suspension and a larger sway bar in one day. I can��t describe it well, but I can handle and speed  much better and with more confidence than before. There��s no guessing where the front end will settle as I come in or out of corners. It��s smoother over rough roads and recovers better after acceleration or braking and around corners. With stock suspension, tires and stock sway bar (which I just noticed has the rubber starting to crack) and only upgrading to a heavy-duty export brace it corners and tracks down the highway flat and straight. I don��t notice any roll or pitching in corners and it seems to even steer lighter than before (I have manual steering). In town you notice it a bit while maneuvering (the lighter steering feel helps), but at street legal highway speeds and better, the car feels more like a new car than a 40 year old car. Now I need a set of lower bias tires so I can get rid of tire roll. I bought roller spring perches back in March/April from "Opentracker" after reading other online review of them and after researching the benefits of them versus stock (rubber), polyurethane and brass (like the 65s had) and oil-impregnated brass bushing like those sold by Cobra Automotive and others. I chose to have them made for me as I didn't have time, experience nor equipment to make them properly., but they are simple to make and he'll supply a list of parts you can buy to make your own (or he'll sell you the parts). I installed them last night at a buddy's house and was able to test them last night. I knew why I was replacing the perches when I removed them. Not only did the stock ones not pivot, they were stuck at an angle where the spring had forced them to sit. The product: The spring perches are just like the pictures in a link posted earlier. They are welded well and finished with a black enamel paint. Installation: Installation requires removal of the wheel, the shock cap, shock, spring and old spring perch. You will need 2 jack stands, a good jack (you'll use it several times on each side to lift the wheel up to gain access to spring perch bolts), a spring compressor, a half inch open wrench, several sockets (1/2" deep and 1/2" standard and 9/16" short)and a 3/8" ratchet or equivalent and a short extender and long extender. The process is simple and straight forward, but helps with few tips... The old spring perch bolts are pressed in and don't unbolt from the top--there are castle nuts that unbolt from below. It helps to jack the wheel up a bit to access the underside of the upper A-arm. Total installation time (including the mods listed below) was about 2-3 hours, including R&R of everything including tires. Modifications needed: Because the center shaft housing is larger in diameter than the originals, Opentracker crimps the center to clear the two shock bolts. I had to give each side a good whack with a wide flat screwdriver where the crimp is to give me a bit more room. The sockets just wouldn��t fit otherwise. Basically, you need to test fit the shock end bolts on the spring perch before installing. If you are able to fit two deep �� sockets on to both bolts at the same time, you should have enough room. Another tip: Put the rubber grommets and washers on to both shock bolts before tightening down either top or bottom of the shock. Install the back bolt on first, too. You need enough play in the shock base to do this. You might also need to grind the front washer flat to have an easier installation time. You don��t have a lot of room to play there. After the bottom bolts are tightened, you can tighten the shock tower caps and the upper bolts. I hope this description help any of you that were thinking of this modification. If there are any other angles I haven��t covered but you want to know about, let me know.
Daniel
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JJonesy99
Gearhead Posts: 203
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-26-2005 02:34 PM
I was looking into buying a set of the rollerized spring perches too. So where did you get them from? web site or phone number would be great. Also, what was the cost of them?Thanks,
Jason ------------------
66' stang
408W, C4, 4.11 gears, 11.94 1/4 @113mph
367 RWHP & 373 RWTQ
DAILY DRIVER
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-26-2005 02:40 PM
Daniel, I might be reading you wrong but I get the impression you liked then?  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe with a BIG Boss hood scoop
My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-26-2005 02:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JJonesy99:
I was looking into buying a set of the rollerized spring perches too. So where did you get them from? web site or phone number would be great. Also, what was the cost of them?Thanks,
Jason
Jason, Alex "Moneymaker" makes some for drag racing.Contact him, http://www.moneymakerracing.com/ "I thought about doing bearings instead of bronze bushings, but thought better of it for drag racing. If your car does not wheel stand much they should be OK, but if you get some elevation I don't think the bearings will take the prolonged beating." ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe with a BIG Boss hood scoop
My Pics
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 09-26-2005 03:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Jason, Alex "Moneymaker" makes some for drag racing.Contact him, http://www.moneymakerracing.com/ "I thought about doing bearings instead of bronze bushings, but thought better of it for drag racing. If your car does not wheel stand much they should be OK, but if you get some elevation I don't think the bearings will take the prolonged beating."
I'm not sure I agree with the statement others have made about the bronze bushings not holding up in the long run. Cobra Automotive makes and sells only the bushing type. Since they sell, modify, and road race these cars, I suspect they must know something. I'll bet that from an ease to make yourself, the bearing type is easier that the bushing ones would be.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-26-2005 03:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
I'm not sure I agree with the statement others have made about the bronze bushings not holding up in the long run. Cobra Automotive makes and sells only the bushing type. Since they sell, modify, and road race these cars, I suspect they must know something. I'll bet that from an ease to make yourself, the bearing type is easier that the bushing ones would be.
The statement was made by Alex, not by me. And he is saying that he likes the bronze bushings better. So I'm not sure what part you don't agree with?
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe with a BIG Boss hood scoop
My Pics
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 09-26-2005 03:41 PM
Yes, SCOOP, I like them.  Cost to purchase (when available) is $180 + shipping. John Dinkle (Opentracker) makes them in his *free* time when he's not racing, etc. He doesn't have much free time, so throughput is limited. His contact info is [email protected] . You can make your own for around $20 with used perches or a bit more with new ones. Other sites to give pictures are http://home.bresnan.net/%7Edazed/opentracker (for how to make them) and
http://www.trinitysmustangs.com/roller_spring_perch (for other pictures of these and of bronze ones). I went back and forth on the rollerized versus brass bushings one. Brass ones require constant lubing, whereas the roller bearings are lifetime sealed. I don't think there is enough force given to the car to break them in standard driving to road racing applications, with the exception of drag racing with constant wheelies like Alex does. The brass may be better for these. Either way there will be an dramatic improvement from stock ones. I don't think I can rotate the stock ones with a vise and a breaker bar! Cobra Automotive sells the brass ones here http://www.cobraautomotive.com/cobra_cat.pdf, page 3, part number 100-3388, phone # 203-284-3863. I'm not sure the price on them, though.
Hope this helps,
Daniel
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427Fastback
Gearhead Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-26-2005 06:16 PM
Bearings are less friction and need no service.Bushings are a little harder to fit and need to be serviced...Alex made a valid point.Bearings would not likely stand up in a car that does wheel stands.The harder the material the more brittle it is.Bearings are"nt designed for that kind of shock load
If its a road car then choose your poison...If your car does wheel stands when it launches and comes down hard then think twice about your choice.
Remember that the whole load is supported on the width of 2 bearings.I have not seen the bushed ones but i suspect the bushing goes all the way through and this spreads the load out far more....
I have a road car....I like the bearings,but i have a 700lb FE to think about and I am known for pushing the handling to its limits... ------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 912
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-26-2005 07:07 PM
There are drawbacks to both designs. The load on a bearing is only carried by the area were the balls contact the races which is a very small area were bushings the bushing contact area is much greater. Bearings are not going to rotate enough to keep the lubricant moved around in them and will start to brinell. The bushings will need lubrication, but some of the bronze materials are self lubricating, it all depends on the grade they use. Bronze bushings can also be "Plugged" with graphite, or spiral cut grooves filled to supply lubrication. ------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time!
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 09-26-2005 07:58 PM
You guys make valid points, and each of you must make up your own minds with the likely driving style you have. There are lots of parts on the car's suspension, each a potential failure point.I factored these into my decision: The shock and the spring both have a damping effect, spreading the impact (compressive) force over time (very short time, however). The tire also has some give to it. This is not the same as a solid mount which would not last any time at all with the forces involved. I have 4 bearings, two for each side. The static load for each sealed bearing is claimed by the company to be around 1100lbs and the dynamic load at 1735lbs with this R14-2RS bearing. This means that the car's impact force must be divided by 4 (and factoring in the spring and shock and tire damping) to get the actual force each bearing will see. This force, even for a big block, means that the spring perch is not likely the first thing that will break in our cars when driven hard unless all other parts are upgraded, including shock tower gusseting and roll cage. I've even considered the force on each little ball bearing (there are 10 in each) in the spring perch--true some will get hit harder than others, but this still means that the 1/4" bearings should last quite a while.
Again, I just reviewed my experience. Other's may vary.
Daniel
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sigtauenus
Gearhead Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-26-2005 09:07 PM
We know the load capacity of the bearing, but what is the load capacity of the steel pipe the bearing is mounted in? Specifically along that point or next to it that the bearing is fitted in the pipe?Not sure about the physics of it, but if there was concern about the pipe colapsing due the bearings being only on each end, what if you just filled up the pipe with say 5 or 6 bearings all the way across?
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bob6364
Gearhead Posts: 447
From: griswold,ct usa MCA#59447
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 09-26-2005 10:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus: what if you just filled up the pipe with say 5 or 6 bearings all the way across?[/B]
You and I are thinking along the same lines,the bearings are cheap too.
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 09-26-2005 11:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
We know the load capacity of the bearing, but what is the load capacity of the steel pipe the bearing is mounted in? Specifically along that point or next to it that the bearing is fitted in the pipe?Not sure about the physics of it, but if there was concern about the pipe colapsing due the bearings being only on each end, what if you just filled up the pipe with say 5 or 6 bearings all the way across?
Not sure about the load rating of the 15 gauge pipe, but it's got to be at least that of the stock ones. The pipe is unlikely to collapse since the inside is supported by the bearings. These perches have been used (and abused) by quite a few road racers (like on cornercarvers.com) for the last few years without a single failure. I don't drive as hard as they do, so I figure mine should last at least that long. I don't drag race and I don't autocross like they do, but I do drive as often as I can and have found a really great item to enhance my driving. I don't mind testing them out and reporting what I've found, though, so someone else looking into purchasing these or the similar brass ones can know if there's a benefit over stock ones.
Daniel
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427Fastback
Gearhead Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-27-2005 01:23 PM
True....roller bearings will never rotate properly and tend to wear out from lack of rotation,like swing arm bearings on a dirt bike...
Bronze or oilite bearings could gall up and some types are brittle.
I would make the sleeve out of heavy wall tube/pipe and counter bore it for the bearings to be pressed in..
No need to run bearings all the way through.It is quite possible that they are made in double wide or just double them up.choose your poison..
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 09-27-2005 01:43 PM
Just be careful where the pipe needs pinched in for shock bolt clearance. Using more than one bearing per side could be a problem... as the metal will need room to stretch while it is pinched. (might be do-able with heat, though)  ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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2bav8
Gearhead Posts: 242
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-03-2005 07:53 PM
I've got a set of Opentracker's roller spring perches as well and really noticed a difference. They have held up well so far after numerous auto-x outings.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-03-2005 08:05 PM
Personally I prefer Walleye or Pollock myself.
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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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bonfire
Journeyman Posts: 45
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 10-04-2005 09:42 AM
took me a minute there alex but I got it....Walleye instead of perch...hahahahaha
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