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Author
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Topic: 289 Overheating HELP!
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FrustratedFord
Journeyman Posts: 82
From: oviedo, Fl.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-18-2004 08:16 PM
 
Hello Everyone new to the forum,
I have a problem that I can not solve. I need help. I picked up a 67 Mustang, stock 289, 2 barrel from Nevada and attempted to drive it to Florida. (Only made it to Oklahoma) the car would run at normal operating temperature anywhere from one hour to four hours, and then it would slowly exceed the limits which caused me to pull over and replenish the radiator. I can not get it to run cool. I replaced the water pump, a new 3 core radiator, installed an automatic transmission cooler, and tried a 160, 180, and 190 degree thermostat. New upper and lower radiator hoses and a flex fan. None of it helped! I was told by others that it could be a possible head gasket or a possible crack block. There is no coolant in the oil, or vise versa. The coolant loss I believe is because of the venting out of the overflow.
I preformed a compression test, and all cylinders read 165 lbs., but one read 145. The spark plug of the low cylinder was not clean as if there was coolant in the combustion chamber. The remaining 7 plugs showed a little bit of evidence of oil fouled. I suspect that it is the valve seals. I also set the timing at 10 degrees and I replaced the points with an igniter system.
This is my first Ford product and I feel that it has beat me already any advice, opinions, ideas even guesses would be appreciated.Thanks Dale
[This message has been edited by FrustratedFord (edited 08-18-2004).]
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4964
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-18-2004 08:44 PM
Have you tried a fan shroud ??------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995GT 5.0 Laser Red - 35000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
2000 F150 4X4
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grourown420
unregistered
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posted 08-18-2004 09:25 PM
Welcome to M&M. You said you replaced the rad hoses, but did the bottom hose have the wire inside? If not, it is probaly getting sucked closed enough for the liquid NOT to be able to move. This is just what I have seen posted here a few times, so maybe that's the problem. Also, on the t-stat, Fail-Safe makes the kind that stay open when they go bad, so it will still restrict the water enough to cool down. Just my 2 cents, but it's something to consider. Good Luck.
William------------------
I'm running with what I got till I break it, then I'll ask lots of questions.
68 Coupe #162531
Stock 289
Edelbrock 600 w/ RPM Intake (to be installed)
Doug Thorley Headers
C4
2:79 Gears
225/60 Eagle GT II's on 15" ASTRO's
If ya aint havin' fun doin' it, ya aint doin' it right.
http://members.cardomain.com/68coop
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 912
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-18-2004 10:34 PM
You could be running a little lean on the air fuel mixture, I don't know what the elevation is in Nevada, but I bet your getting closer to sea level and your carb can use adjusting.------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time!
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-19-2004 01:14 AM
Is the fan about an 1" or so from the radiator. Do you have a temp gauge or just the factory one ?------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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FrustratedFord
Journeyman Posts: 82
From: oviedo, Fl.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-19-2004 07:58 PM
Thanks for all the responses:Ken, I do not have a fan shroud because I felt that at high way speeds a shroud would not be as effective but I do believe around town it would be a big help. Grourown420, I can???t find a lower hose with a spring in it but I did replace them with ones from NPD I thought the same thing. RonnieT, I thought of the carb too and richened it up as much as possible. Fastymz, this is one thing that I thought about because my fan is about three inches away from the radiator. It has a very long spacer all ready on it and can???t find one longer. I am now researching if a head gasket is bad does it always clean the plugs or could it still show good compression and be bad?
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-19-2004 08:03 PM
3" is to far away for the fan to be effective.
What kind of fan is on it now. ------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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FrustratedFord
Journeyman Posts: 82
From: oviedo, Fl.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-19-2004 08:25 PM
Ok I went out to the shop and put a scale on the fan and took the exact measurements and the spacer is 2 ?? inches long and the blades are 2 inches from the radiator. I can not find a spacer longer then what???s on it. Do you still think it???s too far? And if so any idea where I can find a longer spacer?
The fan is an after market 6 blade flex fan and the decal on it said it???s rated at 6000 max rpm.
[This message has been edited by FrustratedFord (edited 08-19-2004).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-19-2004 08:31 PM
Check to make sure it's not a reverse rotation fan they look alike. But it would be pushing the air towards the radiator. 2" should be close enough I've always been told to keep it 1-1.5" from the fan.Are putting the T-stat on the right way ? ------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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N266fords
Gearhead Posts: 1662
From: Sierra Vista ,Az USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-19-2004 08:40 PM
you did not say you replaced the radiator cap just everything around it, if the cap wont hold the 13 to 16 lbs it could cause it to overheat under those conditions it may be week just a thought.
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bifs66
Gearhead Posts: 313
From: Maryland
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-19-2004 09:14 PM
All the previous suggestions have merit, and while can't offer anything new; I just wanted to point out that something must be wrong somewhere. I have owned brand new and previously owned SBF powered classic Mustangs (new 65 GT, used 66 Convt, used 67 Coupe, new 69 Mach-I, etc.) When these engines/cooling systems were functioning properly, there were no overheating issues. In fact, my experience was that they ran on the cold side, even in hot Maryland summer weather. Of course, this was with the stock engines and cooling systems in good operating order. Sometimes I read about 35 year old Mustangs with overheating problems and some say it was their nature. I disagree.....if a SBF is overheating, its because something is wrong or the engine has been modified without an associated upgrade to the cooling system.------------------
Bernie Frank
66 Fastback restomod (12.8 @ 112mph)
85 GT (preserved)
2000 SVT CONTOUR
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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead Posts: 673
From: Frederick County, MD
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-19-2004 09:43 PM
FrustratedFord, welcome to the forum. I hope we can help you change your name to ContentFord or FastFord. I fought an overheating problem as well. (it was actually a cooling problem, it overheated just fine) Be persistent and know that bifs66 was right on the money. These cars were designed to run well. Lack of maintenance, modifications, or age are the factors you are dealing with here. Try these suggestions and be sure to check the archives.
#1)You may have a bad head gasket. Run your motor with the cap off. Look for bubbles in the anti-freeze. Some service shops have a CO detector to check for the presence of combustion by-products in your antifreeze.
#2) You may have a short water pump. The '67 Mustangs used the long water pump. That will get your fan nearer the radiator. 1" is about where it should be. #3) If necessary, make a spring for your lower radiator hose. Use a stainless welding rod.
#4) Try a new radiator cap.
#5) Flush your system of potential crud clogging the passages.
#6) Have the radiator flow-checked.
#7) Use a thermostat with a small hole at the top to bleed air upon filling. Another way is to remove a plug or the heater hose fitting at the top of the intake manifold when filling to bleed off any trapped air.Good luck to you. When you finally get it running dependably, you will be glad you stuck to it. Charlie By the way, #6 was my problem. A new radiator that was defective out of the box.
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FrustratedFord
Journeyman Posts: 82
From: oviedo, Fl.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-20-2004 07:14 PM
Well Gentlemen,I write you all tonight with good news I have found the culprit that has been causing me some much grief!!!
If you read my 1st post I explained that I performed a compression test had found 7 of the 8 cylinder to read 160 or higher but # 5 cylinder read 145-150. With a steady vacuum reading 19 inches I felt that there was no way I had a head gasket issue. I could not think of anything else that would cause it to over heat the way it did so I pulled the heads and found that the head bolt for # 5 cylinder was LOOSE! The valves are tan in color from the coolant leak so I am feeling pretty confident I found my problem.
So the heads are off to the machine shop and next week it will go back together.
I saw some casting numbers under the valve covers but have no idea what they mean anyone out there know?
The right had the numbers 289 6K31 and the left 289 6L21.
I am pretty beat tonight but feeling pretty good that I believe I found my problem thanks for all the help and am looking forward to see how much punch this little Ford small block will have when its put together right. Dale
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whiteknight289
Gearhead Posts: 1391
From: Wheaton, IL, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 08-20-2004 07:20 PM
289 heads from "1966-October-31" and "1966-November-21"
Scott
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-20-2004 08:15 PM
Glad you found the problem.  ------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead Posts: 673
From: Frederick County, MD
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-20-2004 09:41 PM
Oooh- YEAH. You will be cruisin' in no time. Glad you found the problem. Charlie
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gunrocker
Gearhead Posts: 561
From: Colliers, WV,USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 08-20-2004 09:53 PM
Glad to hear you solved your problem!
You WILL be enjoying your Mustang now!!!
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Tom66
Gearhead Posts: 147
From: Billerica, MA, US
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-21-2004 12:25 AM
woohoo! time to drive!
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FrustratedFord
Journeyman Posts: 82
From: oviedo, Fl.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-24-2004 09:31 AM
After pulling the heads to replace the gaskets I went ahead and had the heads resurfaced and the valves done. Being I am this far into it we decided to upgrade the with an Edelbrock Performer manifold, Edelbrock 500 cfm carb and a Edelbrock cam kit. The last thing we can afford are the headers any one have an opinion on Tri-Y Headers?
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ciscokid
Gearhead Posts: 182
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 08-24-2004 09:56 AM
Unless you want an even bigger overheating problem, be very careful when you put on the new head gaskets and be certain that you have them oriented front-to-back properly. If you put them on the wrong way, they physically fit, but the coolant holes will be wrong and you will have overheating problems for sure. When installed correctly, the coolant is forced to flow through the block from front to back, and then through the heads from the back to the front, and then into the intake manifold and on to the radiator. If the gaskets are installed backwards, the majority of the coolant will flow right from the water pump to the intake manifold, and you will overheat for certain.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 08-24-2004 12:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FrustratedFord:
The last thing we can afford are the headers any one have an opinion on Tri-Y Headers?
NPD has a set of Tri-Y headers with the gaskets, bolts and all the needed stuff to install for $159.95. The headers are Ceramic coated and produced by Patriot. (page 89 in the current NPD catalog; Part # 9430-10) Check out "Mr. Dave Gibson" in the Forum "Sam's Place". One of our members bought a set and had them installed in no time. Comments are there. We also replaced our Holley Carb with an Edelbrock 1406 600 cfm carb. Didn't have to do much to tweak things in. Enjoy the ride.  Dave & Terri ------------------
'65 Mustang Fastback
'02 Explorer XLT
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart?
Common sense is not so common anymore.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-26-2004 06:00 PM
Ken, I do not have a fan shroud because I felt that at high way speeds a shroud would not be as effective but I do believe around town it would be a big helpGet the Shroud too
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swiss
Gearhead Posts: 236
From: Duluth, Ga
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 08-26-2004 09:41 PM
Dale I have a 302 with the Edlebrock Performer Cam and Intake. What a great drivable combination with even some lope at the stop light. The heads are 351 Cast Iron ported and polished. I have the Edlebrock 1406 carb and love the combination. With stock heads the 1406 may be a little overkill, but preparation for future upgrades. I ran the 1406 on my old 289 stock motor without any problems. Steve [This message has been edited by swiss (edited 08-26-2004).] [This message has been edited by swiss (edited 08-26-2004).]
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swiss
Gearhead Posts: 236
From: Duluth, Ga
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 08-26-2004 09:45 PM
Dale I have a 302 with the Edlebrock Performer Cam and Intake. What a great drivable combination with even some lope at the stop light.Steve Not sure about the double post, woooops [This message has been edited by swiss (edited 08-26-2004).]
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