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Author
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Topic: help bleeding brakes
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 04-05-2004 05:31 PM
   
i am in the process of bleeding my brake system for the first time. All the parts are brand new (lines, booster, MS, dist. block , calipers, cylinders, etc) It is a 69 mustang with power front discs. I understand how to bleed the system so i started with the rear right and then went to the rear left. everything went great. then i went to the front right and then i had problems. my sis was the one working the pedal and checking brake fluid and as she stepped on the pedal, she said it was VERY HARD to press and as she was doing it, i noticed that hardley any air was coming out. She did it a second time and the same thing happend. I happened to look around and noticed brake fluid leaking under the dist block. I got out from under the car and checked it out and saw the brake lines leaking and the rear brake fluid went down and the front was still full in the MS. I tightened the all the lines even tighter and tried again. same thing happened. It seems like there is something blocking the fluid from going through the lines but everything is new. has this ever happened to any of you guys? please help. thanks.
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sigtauenus
Gearhead Posts: 2205
From: in the RV, moving soon from SC to VA
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 04-05-2004 06:47 PM
I've bled lots of brakes, but in this case I will recall Alex's 3 rules and defer to somebody else who might could help out.
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cynot65
Gearhead Posts: 1178
From: New York
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 04-05-2004 07:23 PM
Mustang Dudes
It's just a thought I had but you mention that the rear cylinder was low and the front was full when you checked the MC. Is it possible that the fluid was leaking when you were at the rear of the car? Also a mantra of mine when dealing with the brakes is "Check it again" I'm curious about this one.
Tony C*------------------
65 Convertible, Vintage Burgandy/Standard Black Interior, 289, 4spd
M&M Member#450
It ain't done yet, but it'll be done right!!
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 04-05-2004 08:26 PM
no. it wasnt leaking when i was bleeding the back brakes. everything went smooth with the rear. there are two reservoirs in the MC. the one in the front is for the rear brakes and visa versa. the front reservoir was the one that was dropping as fluid leaked out. the brake lines are all very tightly secure so it souldnt leak but i think my sis was pressing so hard on the pedal that it was forcing it to seep out. but why wont the fluid flow throught the front brake lines? i am pretty sure the lines are hooked up correctly but not positive. all my manuals dont show a picture of my dist block so im not positive. but i think its correcet because i dont see where else the lines would go if it was wrong. i have 5 lines going into the block plus the other two for the prop. valve. can anyone post a pic or give a fairly detailed descripion on the correct order?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-05-2004 08:30 PM
There should be no human powerful enough to force a master cylinder to leak. Especially a girl! 
If the source of your leak is some of the fittings, then you have a defective line, threads, or flare.
You cannot succesfully bleed the brakes if you have a leaky system.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 04-05-2004 08:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
There should be no human powerful enough to force a master cylinder to leak. Especially a girl!
If the source of your leak is some of the fittings, then you have a defective line, threads, or flare.
You cannot succesfully bleed the brakes if you have a leaky system.
why didnt it leak the first time? and how can it be defective if its brand new? i am really confused here. what should the next step be?
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65ponycar
Gearhead Posts: 748
From: Dayton, OH
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 04-05-2004 10:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kewljay223:
Why didnt it leak the first time?
Maybe it was a small leak, or just occured
quote:
and how can it be defective if its brand new? i am really confused here. what should the next step be?
New parts can also be defective, don't ask how I know(refering to an autozone mc) Like Alex said I would go over everything
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-05-2004 10:45 PM
Jay, you just have to get some good lighting and take the time to follow all the lines and locate the leaky area.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 4857
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-05-2004 10:49 PM
I'm not sure about the front resevoir being for the back and vice versa. about the only thing I'm sure of is that the largest resevoir is for the front because they do most of the braking. Could the lines be backwards?------------------
"I started with nothing, and I still have most of it left"
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang
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N266fords
Gearhead Posts: 1380
From: Spokane ,WA USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 04-05-2004 10:58 PM
adragon8u I think you are right and they are reversed. I also think what he sees is residual from bleeding the rear. Change the lines from from to back and start again after wiping everything clean. crack open all the lines at the master cylinder and dist. block one at a time to make sure they flow there. then check them befor the cylinders or calipers and go from there. good luck Bruce
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 04-06-2004 12:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by adragon8u:
about the only thing I'm sure of is that the largest resevoir is for the front because they do most of the braking. Could the lines be backwards?
The largest reservoir is in the rear and it is hooked up to the front brakes.i am going to go check all the lines one by one today and see what i can come up with. thanks.
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ddenton749
Gearhead Posts: 366
From: Kennett Square, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-06-2004 03:06 PM
You're right, the larger reservior is in the rear and it's for the front brakes. It's larger because the fluid goes into the disk brakes calipers as the pads wear. (I'm assuming you have disk in the front) Did you double check your connections at the proportioning valve? Are the front and rear reversed? You said you replaced everything. Does that include the brake lines?It sounds like more than one problem. The leak is from a faulty fitting. It could be cross-threaded or like Moneymaker said, a defective flare or threads. The hard pedal could be a defective master cylinder, proportioning valve, kinked lines, blockage, etc. Try starting at the master cylinder and loosening each fitting, one at a time, to see if there is brake fluid flow when the pedal is pushed. Make sure you tighten each fitting after you check it. You should be able to find the blockage that way. Also, sometimes on these older cars it is necessary to bench-bleed the master cylinder before you install it to make sure there is no air in it.
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Rickster
Journeyman Posts: 5
From: Northville, MI
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-06-2004 07:24 PM
As said above you will need to bleed the master cyclinder (MC) first. Sometimes the MC comes with 2 plastic fittings and 2 small vac hoses, these are for bleeding the MC. Also for the front disc brakes, start with a gravity bleed. Just open the bleeder and let the brake fluid flow without pedal pressure. Then follow up with a foot pressure bleed on the front. Good luck.
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67yellowcat
Journeyman Posts: 8
From: Brighton, Michigan, USA
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 04-08-2004 12:44 PM
Don't forget that if you're using Dot 3 brake fluid, it's an excellent paint remover. Dripping brake fluid or even wet hands can make even more problems for you.Secondly, from my own experience, I recommend staying calm. These things can get frustrating and then you start making expensive mistakes. My reference point was trying to get a ball joint loose for about 2 HOURS using a pickle fork and large hammer. At around midnight, I did a two hander swing, missed the pickle bar and smashed the inside of my newly painted fender. The paint didn't appreciate it.
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 573
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 04-08-2004 03:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ddenton749:
You're right, the larger reservior is in the rear and it's for the front brakes. It's larger because the fluid goes into the disk brakes calipers as the pads wear. (I'm assuming you have disk in the front) Did you double check your connections at the proportioning valve? Are the front and rear reversed? You said you replaced everything. Does that include the brake lines?It sounds like more than one problem. The leak is from a faulty fitting. It could be cross-threaded or like Moneymaker said, a defective flare or threads. The hard pedal could be a defective master cylinder, proportioning valve, kinked lines, blockage, etc. Try starting at the master cylinder and loosening each fitting, one at a time, to see if there is brake fluid flow when the pedal is pushed. Make sure you tighten each fitting after you check it. You should be able to find the blockage that way. Also, sometimes on these older cars it is necessary to bench-bleed the master cylinder before you install it to make sure there is no air in it.
I would look into the propotioning valve as it may have trip if one side of brake system fails it has a slide valve that is resettable.to the center position. If that doesn't solve it start craking lines loose from the master cylinder then to the proportioning valve to distribution block to each wheel cylkinder/caliper (you will find it!)
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67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS Crate engine T5, cable clutch conversion Flowmasters X Pipe 4.11 9". Clear water Aqua GT Clone 13.39 on 205/70/14 BFG @104 mph 03 Focus ZX3 BORLA exhaust Wings West spoiler (Arrest ME RED)
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