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Author
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Topic: Still overheating, need help badly...
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65blowncoupe
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Paola, KS
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 09:33 AM
   
Hey guys thanks for reading. 3 months ago I bought a 65 coupe mustang with a blower 289 motor. The car is completely restore inside and out and the motor was newly rebuilt. However, on my trip back home 1,000 miles the car would overheat if I wasn't driving down the cold winter highway blasting cold air in the motor. I assumed that since it was the stock radiator that that was the problem. As soon as I got 1 mile from home I cracked the block. I decided to have the whole motor redone from top to bottom. The block wasn't bad so it was sleeved. The other problem was that the people who built the engine put the blower on as an afterthought and didn't have low compression pistons or the right cam or the right carb. So I told the engine builder to spare no expense. He redid the whole motor, mag fluxed, sonic tested pressure tested, ect. Every thing is new including forged rods, forged aluminum pistons 8 to 1 compression for the blower the right cam, the right carb from holley, rod bearings, timing chain, valve covers, aluminum racing radiator and spall fan, replaced everything except the heads since they were newly ported and checked out fine. They are 351 winsor heads by the way. The motor was blueprinted and balanced and as well. We got it back in the car and broke in the cam and then checked everything then took it for a test drive for 20 minutes. The drive was slow and smooth everything going well water temp was 160 the whole way (160deg thermostat) then when after we decided to give it a little hard acceleration through the gears the temp rose to 200 within minutes so we pulled of the rode and shut it off when it got to 210 30seconds after it reached 200 it was obviously climing fast. We towed it back to the shop and replaced the thermostat with another new one. Repeated the same drive and it happened again. We realized that the only time it got hot was under a load like medium acceleration. Also the water pump was about the only thing we did not replace. It is a stock water pump, possibly the original. I am guessing it is either a bad water pump, cavatation in the pump area or a steam pocket somewhere. Do you guys have any suggestions? Please help if you can. Thanks in advance.
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2255
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 04-01-2004 10:09 AM
you didnt mention if you upgraded the old radiator. You spent a lot of money on the motor but those stock 65 rads wont handle all that heat from an engine like that. if you can cruis nice with no problem how does it idle? The cooling system relies on 4 thingsT stat
Fan
Radiator
pump if the fan is not good enough you usually end up with problems idling in traffic Water pumps usually either work or dont, if they break you know about it pretty fast and the engine wont even cruise without overheating. You can help the system by getting a high flow pump, but you should get a higher pressure cap to go with it sounds like you have the t stat checked out That leaves the radiator, which sounds like its not big enough. This assumes your cap is good, and you dont have a blockage or a leak. Sometimes the lower hose will collapse when you rev the motor. You should check the lower hose when you rev the motor. A stainless steel welding rod can be used (by bending it into a spiral) to stiffen the lower hose and prevent it from collapsing. Hope you get it fixed. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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coupe3w
Journeyman Posts: 53
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 10:16 AM
I too would check the lower rad. hose and cap. Also check the timing you might have to much advance in the distributor. Also check for a lean condition with the blower you could be runing lean.
last resort I would have the engine set up on a engine dyno and have every thing checked out. Runing hot is no fun.
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65blowncoupe
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Paola, KS
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 11:32 AM
The radiator was upgraded. I thought I wrote that in the paragraph somewhere but yes it was. I spent $1,000 on a custom radiator that is a polished aluminum 4 core with a 16" 3,000cfm spall fan and also put on cool flex chromed copper hoses top and bottom. Timing is right and it may be running slighly rich but according to holley it is idea for a new blower motor to help it run cooler. Even the plugs are two heat cycles cooler as recommended by holley who makes the small blower I have. See this link for pics of the radiator. http://www.brigadegunleather.com/radiator.html[This message has been edited by 65blowncoupe (edited 04-01-2004).]
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bibbs68
Gearhead Posts: 1554
From: Jackson, TN
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 04-01-2004 01:01 PM
Man! With a radiator that nice I can only imagine what the car looks like, not to mention the engine bay. Pics please!  ------------------
Jeremy
'68 Coupe
M&M Member #685
MCA Member #49134
Help make the world a better place, drive a Ford and race a slot car!
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2255
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 04-01-2004 01:38 PM
Sorry I can see you wrote "aluminum racing radiator"Well It sure looks like a nice radiator but it doesnt look very big. If thats a 16 inch fan then that radiator core cant be much more than 18 inches at best. Anyway assuming the radiator is OK, then you either have some kind of air in the system or you dont have enough pump. Who built that radiator? Its a work of art but it worries me that its so small. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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Hell_Fish
Gearhead Posts: 860
From: Austin, TX.
Registered: May 2002
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posted 04-01-2004 02:00 PM
What about adding a pusher fan? Or maybe the system has an air bubble and needs to be burped or maybe a head gasket is blown?------------------
Dustin C
"The Mopar Guy!"
CRC Motorsports
56 F-100
Mech. for wifes 69 Mustang coupe
65 Plymouth Barracuda
70 Dodge Swinger
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65blowncoupe
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Paola, KS
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 02:01 PM
Actually the radiator is larger than a griffin or becool brands and it is rated at 650hp. I am only putting out 450hp. I got to looking at the blower and it just occured to us that the blower pulley on top is very small about a 3:1 upper to lower pulley ratio. According to B&M (which Holley now owns their blower division) they recommend a 1.5:1 ratio. He says that I am super heating the air and that no radiator could ever cool the engine. So now I guess the next step is to change the top pulley to a larger one. I will take photos when I get everything finished. Any other input you have is appreciated.
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coupe3w
Journeyman Posts: 53
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 02:21 PM
Which Spall fan is that? I like the offset motor.
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65blowncoupe
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Paola, KS
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 02:54 PM
http://stores.ebay.com/Mattsons-Radiator-Incorporated
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-01-2004 06:59 PM
In my limited experience most people treat the symptoms and dont find the problem (ie bigger oil pan/bigger radiator)when the issue is actually timeing or something else. It sounds like the the pully will solve your problem your probably running a few pounds of boost to high and causeing to much compression and your timing is probably advanced to help it that adds up to a lot of heat.Most radiator problems tend to show themselves at idle vs under load.It sounds like and engine heat build up to me.[This message has been edited by 70bbstang (edited 04-01-2004).]
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whiteknight289
Gearhead Posts: 1000
From: Wheaton, IL, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 08:11 PM
By the way, you said you pulled off the road and shut off and watched the temp rise. This is common, the heat is soaking in to the engine and the water pump is no longer circulating. ------------------
MCA Certified Judge, 1965-1966
66 GT coupe A code, Silver Frost
65 coupe modified - the White Knight
66 convert being restored
95 GT convertible/Cobra clone - black with white leather
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65blowncoupe
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Paola, KS
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 04-01-2004 09:16 PM
According to a B&M blower manual the blower that is on my motor should run with a pulley that is no smaller than 3.73" and ideally a 4.10" is the best for overall street use. It will boost about 5-6 lbs with a 4.10" top pulley. Evidently the 2.25" pulley that is on there now is boosting at about 18lbs which I was told by Holley that it would be like having a furnace blowing into your manifold. No wonder I had a heat problem. I am having the proper pulley overnighted to me to solve the problem. Thanks for all your input. I also put in a brand new 9" rear end with new 3.50gear third member and drive shaft and new rebuilt 4speed top loader tranny and new center force dual friction clutch. Can't wait to get the whole thing broke in.[This message has been edited by 65blowncoupe (edited 04-01-2004).]
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N266fords
Gearhead Posts: 1373
From: Spokane ,WA USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 04-02-2004 01:29 AM
One other thing is you need to have a great dizzy like an msd unit or timing may keep on advancing, that would not be good. Also make sure your exhaust is not to restrictive this also may cause heat problems. Bruce
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