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Author
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Topic: Opinion on the new Flaming River Rack Conversion
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 03:31 PM
   
Well has anyone seen one or touched one, and if so what do you think. I like the idea that it is a straight bolt in unit. Has anyone heard if there is a problem with header clearance?Thanks Guys
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-16-2004 03:44 PM
Interesting. I priced the FR300-65 for $1,129.95 at Summit.http://www.flaming-river.com/c-must-rack.htm ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 04:13 PM
Hi Steve, That is the one I was looking at. Do you know of anyone that has fitted one? I read the article in April's Mustang & Ford, and they seem only to have good things to say, but then they might be given the unit, and be a little bias.
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fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 816
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
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posted 03-16-2004 04:15 PM
all i can tell you is the things they offer the street rod crowd are very well made. i have seen a lot of their items at the York,Pa Nats EAST the last few years and 2 friends have Flaming River parts on their cars. sorry i cant be of more help.------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-16-2004 04:24 PM
No, actually this is the first I've heard of them, {thanks for that, actually} I bet Flaming River with have a booth at the Mustang 40th next month and I probably will get a close up look of them then.It sure seems like a decent price for what you get. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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65EhCode
Journeyman Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 04:26 PM
I have the kit, BUT yes there is a header issue. I have not installed it because of that but it looks nicely made. For 65/66 there is supposedly a little cutting (trimming an overhanging flange back to the rails). Unfortunately it is not compatible with headers, I only found out after receiving the kit. There seems to be some confusion but the consensus is that long tube header will not fit. The FR person I talked to said neither tri-y nor shorties would work either. But I have heard rumors/stories that some tri-ys fit. I'm surprised that the rep said shorties would not work either, I have my doubts about that statement. Bottom line is they are suppose to working on a solution but nothing forthing for the next month or so. Looking at the I don't see how they will fix it short of a different r&p or a flex drive of some sort between the r&p and column.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-16-2004 04:32 PM
Well that's a bummer. Are you going to wait or use hipo manifolds or get some custom headers made?------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25052
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-16-2004 05:14 PM
Flaming River products are of very high quality. We sell quite a bit of their stuff.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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bibbs68
Gearhead Posts: 1554
From: Jackson, TN
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 03-16-2004 05:46 PM
If someone would order the setup to fit my car and have it shipped to me, I'd be happy to test it out.  Seriously though, that article caught my eye as well. Not in the market for it but it was interesting. 
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FiveOFastback
Journeyman Posts: 93
From: Bethlehem, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 06:14 PM
The header fitment question, is that just for 65-66 mustangs or is it all the years 65-70? If so, its a real bummer... 
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65EhCode
Journeyman Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 06:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Well that's a bummer. Are you going to wait or use hipo manifolds or get some custom headers made?
I'm waiting to see what happens since I currently have hooker comps on it. I'm reluctant to change the exhaust system, maybe because it was the last step of the 3yrs of restorations (bought as a non-runner). My reluctance seems strange since I was willing to replace the the rebuilt/restored PS steering with the rack & pinion.
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65EhCode
Journeyman Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 06:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FiveOFastback:
The header fitment question, is that just for 65-66 mustangs or is it all the years 65-70? If so, its a real bummer...
As far as I know it is with all years 65-70. The pinion shaft is more centered (compared to the TCP r&p), and the shaft that connects the steering column to the pinion shafts interferes with the header.
The pinion shaft center is about 7" in from the driver side rail.
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 08:08 PM
That is a real shame about the headers , as I am just about to fit a set of Tri-y's and a new 2 1/2" system. I will wait a few months to find out what they are going to do. I should think that most folks that are going to fit this type of conversion will not be running stock manifolds. You would have thought they would have taken that into consideration. 
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Tommy
Journeyman Posts: 59
From: loretto,tn 38469
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-16-2004 09:04 PM
I have been seeing the kit in the magazines and was also wondering about the header issues.I called Flaming River today and talked to them about the headers issue.Also I have a 351W in my 65.He told me that the shaft wouldn't clear the headers.But here is the good news.He said they were working on a kit that would allow the shaft to clear and should be ready hopefully in a week.He told me to call back in a week and he should have them ready or close to being ready.Also he said they would be in Nashville.------------------
65 coupe,351W,C4 TRANS,9in w/325 pos
(The Heartbeat Stops Here)
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-17-2004 05:18 AM
Hi Tommy, Thanks for that. Can you let me know how you get on.
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Tommy
Journeyman Posts: 59
From: loretto,tn 38469
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-17-2004 09:42 AM
Sure thing.I will post what I find out.I was looking at my setup and still wondering if the kit will fit even with the header kit.If it does it's going to be tight.------------------
65 coupe,351W,C4 TRANS,9in w/325 pos
(The Heartbeat Stops Here)
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jeeeptech
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: TR S.C.
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 03-17-2004 11:09 PM
Be weary it will NOT work with a manual trans its in the way of the clutch linkage...
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coupe3w
Journeyman Posts: 53
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 03-18-2004 03:19 PM
Yeah, I talked to Flaming River about the R&P about 2 weeks ago and they told me the same thing "won't work with headers, but they were working on a fix". So we shell see what they come up with. It just amazes me that they would design it not to fit with headers. I mean a guy restoring his car to stock (stock exhaust)is not going to want to use R&P in his restored stock car.[This message has been edited by coupe3w (edited 03-18-2004).]
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-18-2004 04:39 PM
Well that is me out of the game I have a toploader, it seems a bit much having to change the tranny to fit a rack & pinion. I guess I could go to cable or hydraulic, but I like the feel of the clutch as it is.
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1268
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-13-2004 02:21 PM
Has anyone actually installed one of these yet?
Have they resolved the header issue?
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66 fastback
Journeyman Posts: 77
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 04-14-2004 09:08 AM
Hi, I have been lurking in the backround here for a while. When I read this post this morning I decided to speak up and add something.Breaking news on the F/R rack kit, I have sitting on the floor in my garage a kit that will fit my 66, it has been modified by F/R to fit with TriY headers. The rack is different that the first one I was sent and the frame bracket is different as well. I should have taken photos of the first parts I received for comparison, but as they say hindsight is 20/20. In any case they have solved the fitment problem. I also understand they are testing a kit on a 67 with long tubes.
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FiveOFastback
Journeyman Posts: 93
From: Bethlehem, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 04-14-2004 02:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
Hi, I have been lurking in the backround here for a while. When I read this post this morning I decided to speak up and add something.Breaking news on the F/R rack kit, I have sitting on the floor in my garage a kit that will fit my 66, it has been modified by F/R to fit with TriY headers. The rack is different that the first one I was sent and the frame bracket is different as well. I should have taken photos of the first parts I received for comparison, but as they say hindsight is 20/20. In any case they have solved the fitment problem. I also understand they are testing a kit on a 67 with long tubes.
I hope they can make the rack work with a 67, that would be sweeeeeet! )
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-14-2004 07:00 PM
Hi 66 fastback, is yours manual or auto?
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 07-18-2004 07:51 PM
Hi 66 Fastback, have you had chance to fit your rack yet?
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66 fastback
Journeyman Posts: 77
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-19-2004 01:24 PM
No the kit did not fit. The headers were in direct contact with the pinion shaft on the rack. If I wanted to completely close one of the header tubes, it might have worked.After several phone calls, threats, and a complaint filed with the BBB I have been given a refund for the kit. Stay away from this kit, I know of only one succesful insatall with headers. DVS restorations made on work, he modified the rack and made a new frame bracket. Dallas Mustang built a car and there was an article about it in a recenet magazine issue. It has the F/River kit on it. I contacted them and they told me they also made their own bracket, the supplied bracket did not fit. Some "bolt on" kit. I ended up buying a F/River gear for my 66, if I could have purchased a new gear from anybody else I would have. I wrote and Fedex'd a letter to the CEO, it took her three weeks to respond, and she just made inaccurate excuses as to why the kit did not fit. I will never do business with them again.
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 6609
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-19-2004 01:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
No the kit did not fit. The headers were in direct contact with the pinion shaft on the rack. If I wanted to completely close one of the header tubes, it might have worked.After several phone calls, threats, and a complaint filed with the BBB I have been given a refund for the kit. Stay away from this kit, I know of only one succesful insatall with headers. DVS restorations made on work, he modified the rack and made a new frame bracket. Dallas Mustang built a car and there was an article about it in a recenet magazine issue. It has the F/River kit on it. I contacted them and they told me they also made their own bracket, the supplied bracket did not fit. Some "bolt on" kit. I ended up buying a F/River gear for my 66, if I could have purchased a new gear from anybody else I would have. I wrote and Fedex'd a letter to the CEO, it took her three weeks to respond, and she just made inaccurate excuses as to why the kit did not fit. I will never do business with them again.
Sad: There have beeen a few threads on another site and the posters, for the most part, are UNHAPPY campers. They were not flame posts-just a lot of unhappy folks who laid out a fair sum to get a good product and got hosed.
It seems like they used the V-M site as a research and development site-letting their customers do the research AFTER they had paid!
FR is supposed to be a good co. with good products, like their steering boxes, but they've really tarnished their name in Mustang circles. One thing have learned about R&P's in early stangs is a greatly increased turning circle. If I wanted to make a U at a traffice signal intersection (legal here) would probably have to back up to complete the move. Not cool.
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66 fastback
Journeyman Posts: 77
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-19-2004 02:04 PM
I am pretty active on V-M as 66 HertzClone. You probably read my posts, I have been very vocal about my problems and have spoken nothing but the truth about the product or F/Rivers lack of customer service.
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whiteknight289
Gearhead Posts: 1000
From: Wheaton, IL, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 07-19-2004 02:38 PM
Slightly off subject here, but a good time to bring this up.
Now that you've laid out a bunch of money and have a product you can't use you've taken all the correct steps to fix the situation, including the final option of telling the company you plan to contact the Better Business Bureau.But how many of us think to contact the Better Business Bureau before we spend our money? The BBB is a private company, not a government authority, and business' have to join to become members. It has no authority to do anything to the business except keep information on file regarding past complaints. Since it is mostly a clearing house of complaints there isn't much incentive for a business to join. Even if the business is not a member, the bureau will still contact them with a complaint and help with the resolution. If you find out after you purchase that the company has other complaints lodged against it, that doesn't put your money back in your pocket. In this particular example the company has mostly enjoyed a good reputation and it wouldn't occur to most of us to check them out. I've said it before and I still believe it, sooner or later most companies are going to have a problem, its just the nature of being in business. Its how they solve the problem that lets us know their true colors. You didn't mention it, but I certainly hope they gave you the gearbox at a substantially reduced cost!
Scott
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66 fastback
Journeyman Posts: 77
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-19-2004 02:58 PM
No they charged me the full price for the gear. I am out the cost of shipping (3 times), and about $100 total. Based upon the response from them I will continue to pursue the BBB complaint. I will also reply to any post when someone is considering the purchase of this or any unit from them, I feel the need to share my experience. Word of mouth advertising, it's free
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 541
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-20-2004 05:10 AM
Reading this post I am thinking that a TCP @ 2K$ isn't a bad deal after all ! On the topic of rack & pinion did anyone tried to install the one from the company below ? http://www.carchemistry.com/steeroids.html
(also see article of mustang & fords)
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 541
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-20-2004 05:45 AM
When I questionned them on the availability of a Power Rack & Pinion for 67s here is the answer I got FYI:"The power kit should be available in 2-3 months (September 2004). The kit comes complete with
tie rod ends. Price will be $1150 without a steering column (modifications
to the stock column is necessary as well as some fabrication) or $1450 with
a brand new steering column."
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Steve-UK
Gearhead Posts: 188
From: Wickford, Essex, England
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 07-20-2004 03:33 PM
I hold by breath to see what happens. I will be over in November to the SEMA Show, I might just pop over and have a word with the guys on the FR stand, and stand well back. 
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 552
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 07-20-2004 11:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
No they charged me the full price for the gear. I am out the cost of shipping (3 times), and about $100 total. Based upon the response from them I will continue to pursue the BBB complaint. I will also reply to any post when someone is considering the purchase of this or any unit from them, I feel the need to share my experience.
Word of mouth advertising, it's free
I have heard and seen the evidence and aggravation that is posted above. FR had(HAD) a good rep but has gone in the crapper on this deal 2 R&D's by the customers after they paid and no full refunds sounds like BS to me!!!!! I was looking into this part for my 67 but will refrain till some other company with great rep builds and backs up the RIGHT Part!
------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 600 Holley ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 13.39 on 205/70/14 BFG @104 mph
[This message has been edited by Tom G (edited 07-20-2004).]
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66 fastback
Journeyman Posts: 77
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-21-2004 09:53 AM
Thanks Tom, it was nice to meet you when you stopped by my shop. It appears that my car will finally arrive back at my house on Friday. With all the work I need to complete before it is roadworthy, I have all but given up driving it this season. I will have pleanty of time to carefully assemble it over the winter. See you later...
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Hemikiller
Gearhead Posts: 551
From: Killingworth, CT
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-22-2004 01:48 PM
I've read alot of the F/R posts on vintage-mustang.com. It seems like a total lack of R&D work on their part, and a huge fumble on the customer service. Selling a R&P, which I would consider a "performance" upgrade, that won't work with headers makes absolutely no sense to me. It wouldn't be tough for a company of F/R's size to purchase a dozen or so sets of headers to determine which will or will not fit. The kits also seem to suffer from massive bumpsteer, as the pivot centers for the inner tie rods have been relocated outward. There was a post on the VMF where a member measured his toe change (bumpsteer) before and after the kit install and the change was drastic, like in inches! I think the worst part has been the apparently horrible customer service that has been meted out by F/R. The VMF had a group buy on their products to get a discount, and those trying to return the R&P kits have been handed alot of grief in actually getting their money back. Furthermore, those in the group buy that wanted to exchange their R&P's for a standard steering box were told that they had to pay full price for the box, not the group buy discounted price. Your money, your car, your time, you decide....................
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