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Author
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Topic: timing woooows
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 03:00 PM
   
well i read 66coupei6,s tech article on timing it was unbelivable the difference setting the timing right can do to a car. the thing i dont understand is how does it ping first and how does advancing it help and such. like i looked down at my dist and from what i read it was way off and this was done with a timing light so i played with it and the performance difference was unbelivable omg . i think i turned it advanced about 25-35 degrees (didnt have a protractor in hand) and the car was nasty lol i think i gained like a second no im running 17.5 seconds lol oh well what do you guys think about timing?------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
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adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5559
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 03:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by trashline:
what do you guys think about timing?
To a comic, it's critical.  . but seriously, Timing is extremely important I would think. Got have it firing and exhausting correctly to perform well.------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 04:25 PM
i agree but i dont knwo one thing about timing i thought all it does was send a spark to each plug------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
IP: Logged |
adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5559
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 04:46 PM
The distributor sends the spark to the plugs, but timing determines when that spark occurs in relation to where the piston is at a given moment. If you can imagine a pistons coming up on a power stroke and the plug fires to soon, the the piston is theoriticaly being stopped in the middle and results in poor performance and possible damage. I believe you may also want to check dwell. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but dwell determines the duration of the point gap. Am I correct there guys? or am I off base here.?------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang [This message has been edited by adragon8u (edited 02-17-2004).]
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 04:57 PM
so when you advance the timing what does that do?------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
IP: Logged |
adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5559
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 05:06 PM
That will eventually, if you advance to far, will cause the plug to fire to late(after the piston has already peaked and is on it's way down. it would be like pushing somthing off a hill but letting it roll a couple feet first before you pushed. no ummph! so to speak. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on the subject can explain it better, but these analogies work for me.
But if you can imagine these scenarios be multiplied 4/6/8 fold, then you kind of get the picture as to why timing is critical. And that's not even taking into effect the cam timing for the valves.------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 06:23 PM
so it actully is pretty critical. i got what your saying so if i de advance it its like pushing the car up the hill and then back down on the other side. i got ya. ------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
IP: Logged |
adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5559
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 07:21 PM
If you think about how a 4 stroke operates.
There are 4 strokes per cycle.
As the piston comes down, the intake valve is open, drawing in fuel
as it comes back up both valves are closed allowing for the pressure when the spark ignites the fuel which forces the piston down.
As the piston comes back up, the exhaust valve opens allowing the expellsion of the exhaust.
Then it starts all over again. Now you have that happening 8 different times.------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 09:27 PM
well 6 for me. i drove it around town today and when i start out real low in a gear it tends to tick sometimes so i need to turn it back a tid bit more. are adjustments on distributers very precise should i be very careful with were i place it. is this ticking bad?------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
IP: Logged |
adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5559
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-17-2004 10:38 PM
i'd leave that answer to someone else a little better knowlageable on the subjecy. I'm ok with basics, but I learn way more then I've been able to give back.  ------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/adragon8u/mystang
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2803
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 02-18-2004 09:26 AM
It sounds like you need a timing light.
You can adjust a distributor by hand but even a few degrees will make a big difference.A timing light will make it more precise. As usual I would love to draw some diagrams of cylinder pressure and the effect of timing but without diagrams It would take several pages of words. Adragon8u gave some good analogys. The "ticking" or pinging you hear is when the timing is too advanced. The plug starts the fire and as the flame progresses through the cylinder it compresses the remaining gases. Those gases if they are close to something hot (like the piston or exhaust valve)will self ignite in lots of little explosions. Its those detonations that you hear, and they are very destructive to the engine. They "nibble" away at the pistons, and also can cause damage by way of shock loading to the crank and bearings etc.. Too far retarded and the fire will be a little too late and if your not careful and go to far the engine can misfire, and cause excessive exhaust valve temperatures. It will be lower in power and get worse fuel consumption. One more thing is that emissions - especially NOx emissions - are affected by timing. this is one reason why they started messing with timing with funny retarding devices starting around 68-69. Things went downhill from there with air injectors, low compression ratios and crappy cam timing. The distributor is a very neat little device, it has a mechanical advance device system using weights that make the spark advance with engine speed - up to a point. At idle your timing is usually between about 6 and 12 degrees before top dead center. At 3000RPM it might be as advanced as 35 degrees. Above that speed (typically) the timing is not advanced further, the weights reach their travel limit. The limits, and the spring rates can all be adjusted to tune your car for the best timing under all conditions. The vacuum advance unit, is really more of a retarding device. This unit will keep timing advanced at part throttle conditions (but not idle). But when you go to wide open throttle at low engine speeds (in other when the vacuum is not present) it retards timing helping to avoid detonation. It is at wide open throttle and low engine speed when detonation occurs most readily... You mentioned yourself that it happens when you try to accelerate hard from low engine RPMs. It allows timing to stay advanced at part throttle which really helps cruising gas mileage! ------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-18-2004 09:37 AM
i am actully happier with the way the timing is now then when it was done with two test lights. from two different people. i will drive it for a week and see if it is all around better im sure it will be. it drives way better. doesnt have as rough of an idle more power and hopefully uses less gas but i really wasnt looking to fix my problems lol i was trying to get a discussion on timing to see how different people feel and run there cars lol. but im glad i got my timing straightend out dragon helped me out alot .and thank you for your big azz post very helpful in understanding things i still had questions on------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior [This message has been edited by trashline (edited 02-18-2004).]
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2109
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 02-19-2004 06:19 PM
anybody else have timing problems? that they would like to talk about? or does anybody have any tips or ideas to share?------------------
1966 mustang coupe
200ci 3 speed tranny
msd 6a ignition, blaster 2 coil, 2 inch exhaust to a glass pac, stock rear, single out header, cold air intake (homemade).
white w/ black interior
IP: Logged |
cracing
Gearhead Posts: 559
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 02-19-2004 06:43 PM
If you are pinging slightly, use 1 or 2 steps colder plug, you can run advanced timing for response & power & not ping. But only to a limit. Plugs too cold will foul in short order. Some time timing will give a false impression to the seat of the pants. On my drag car setting total timimg at 30* will net.04 quicker on clocks vs 38*. Feels way more powerful, revs quicker,more response at 38* tho. Move your dist by hand till it runs to suit you, then check it with a light so you know where to set it from now on.
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