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Author
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Topic: Find the vibration...???
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-24-2003 03:47 PM
   
Heres the scoop.....I've had a vibration in my 65 between 2000 and 2300 RPMS ever since installing my new engine (see signature). It vibrates when its parked with the clutch in or out.....it vibrates under acceleration and deceleration.
I've ruled out tires and their balance and the drive shaft because it vibrates even when its standing still !!!
Everything on the engine was BRAND NEW when installed.
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it but driving home from my last cruise of the season my adjustment on my clutch went totally bannanas. The only way to keep the linkage from CLUNKIN' was to adjust the clutch level all the way to the top !!! Right after the first of the year I am going to replace the flywheel and clutch and if that doesn't do it the harmonic balancer too. Does anybody have any other ideas ??? Have at it guys.................
------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6495
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-24-2003 03:52 PM
you did not put a new model engine in and use the old flywheel and balancer did you???------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/billswebsite/pg06.html
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-24-2003 03:59 PM
Nope, new FORD 10.5 inch cast iron flywheel and a new 50oz. 4-bolt dampner.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6495
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-24-2003 04:06 PM
well shoot!! where is billy mac when you need him??------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/billswebsite/pg06.html
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 9038
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 12-24-2003 04:34 PM
I'm thinking that the flywheel is not balanced correctly. Wrong size weight or it's missing a weight. Just my $0.02 worth.Dave & Terri ------------------
'65 Mustang Fastback
'02 Explorer XLT
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart?
Common sense is not so common anymore.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6495
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-24-2003 05:00 PM
yea, what he said!! i can tell you EXACTLY what it feels like!! LOL you look in your rear view mirror and you see 2 of everything behind you!!------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/billswebsite/pg06.html
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kcode
Gearhead Posts: 3074
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-24-2003 08:15 PM
Ken, when the motor was built, did you have the rotating assembly balanced? Also, is your flywheel a for a 50 or 28 oz? Since you said it vibrates even when the clutch is in and sitting still, it almost has to be motor related. This is totally off the wall, but what firing order are you using? Mike
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 830
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-24-2003 09:57 PM
Ken, It could also be the pressure plate out of balance. ------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time!
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 557
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-26-2003 04:12 AM
My own experience of a similar problem lead to an unbalanced rotating assembly. Every thing was new and homogenous (28oz damper & flywheel in an early engine). Had to take the damper/flywheel/crankshaft + rod & pistons to the shop for balancing 
I would first do a thorough homogeneity check of all components, now if everything is within specs you can still end up with situations where two components will be in opposite end of their respective specs creating vibs !!
Based on that experience I will NEVER build a brand new engine without a full rotating assembly balance job 
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-26-2003 09:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by kcode:
Ken, when the motor was built, did you have the rotating assembly balanced? Since you said it vibrates even when the clutch is in and sitting still, it almost has to be motor related. Mike
I would imagine it was balanced Mike  . I only say that becuse it was built at a California shop and then shipped here !!!
Please, the last thing I want is for it to be engine related  . ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 594
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-26-2003 09:30 AM
Late model block and rotating assembly? ie: 5.0 roller block? Needs a late model balancer. Did they sell you the flywheel too?
When I changed my setup to a late model motor i went with a late model 5.0 clutch pressure plate setup. You said the clutch adjustment went haywire I would suspect a bad throwout bearing or a bad pressure plate. Just a thought. Hope you find the problem is clutch related not motor. One more question did the problem just appear or has it been there since motor was installed?------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS Crate engine 5 spd cable clutch 13.39 on 205/70/14 BFG @104 mph Flowmasters X Pipe 4.11 9". Body shop NOW! 03 Focus ZX3 BORLA exhaust Wings West spoiler (Arrest ME RED)
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-26-2003 09:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tom G:
Needs a late model balancer. Did they sell you the flywheel too?
One more question did the problem just appear or has it been there since motor was installed?
Tom, the flywheel and balancer both came from the engine builder and yes...the vibration has been there since day one. I'm just hoping that when we start tearing it apart that theres some real obvious, simple problem to take care of !!! ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-28-2003 08:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tom G:
When I changed my setup to a late model motor i went with a late model 5.0 clutch pressure plate setup.
Can you explain that setup Tom.....  ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-01-2004 12:58 PM
^
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43394
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-01-2004 06:01 PM
This is the same engine builder that didn't torque your oil pump correctly and it fell into the oil pan, isn't it? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-01-2004 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
This is the same engine builder that didn't torque your oil pump correctly and it fell into the oil pan, isn't it?
No Steve, come to find out it was my buddy that didn't loctite or torque the bolts to specs ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26242
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-01-2004 06:22 PM
I have found that on 5.0 HO engines, if you do not align the pressure plate balance weights with those on the flywheel, you will incur a vibration.
We have fixed many a boched DIY drive way clutch job that way.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 22551
From: Buckroe Beach Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-01-2004 06:28 PM
Its the Driver shaking
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43394
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-01-2004 06:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I have found that on 5.0 HO engines, if you do not align the pressure plate balance weights with those on the flywheel, you will incur a vibration.
We have fixed many a boched DIY drive way clutch job that way.
Man that's a sharp thing to pick up on!  ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 02-29-2004 08:57 AM
Heres a little update and a question .
Yesterday we dropped the exhaust system, drive shaft, tranny, bellhousing and took off the pressure plate and flywheel. There seems to be no obvious problem that would be causing my vibration problem !!!I'm going to replace the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing and flywheel for now..... Question: Seeing how this is a later model 302.....exactly what weight flywheel should I be buying to put on it ?? PS: Alex, do you happen to sell the flywheel and clutch kit I will be needing ?? ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26242
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-29-2004 12:37 PM
What is the actual source of the short block?
Is it a FoMoCo crate engine?
The reason I am asking is that if the crank is not a late model 5.0 302 lightweight unit, just installing a 50 oz balancer and flywheel will not make it a 50 oz balance engine!
For now....
I guess what I would do is while it is down, temporarily install the bell hosing and starter (with no clutch assembly), start it up and see if it still vibrates.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 02-29-2004 05:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
What is the actual source of the short block? Is it a FoMoCo crate engine?
The reason I am asking is that if the crank is [b] not a late model 5.0 302 lightweight unit, just installing a 50 oz balancer and flywheel will not make it a 50 oz balance engine!
For now....
I guess what I would do is while it is down, temporarily install the bell hosing and starter (with no clutch assembly), start it up and see if it still vibrates.[/B]
Alex, I bought the engine as a 302 GT40P Long Block from Central Coast Mustang in California. They themselves told me that the engine had to have a 50oz harmonic balancer because it was a later model 302.....
Starting it up the way you suggested is not an option (right now anyways) because the car is in my cellar and theres no exhaust system on it right now !!! Another question.....how would this engine react if they sent a 28oz flywheel instead of a 50oz ??? I ask this because to me both the flywheel they sent to me and the original 28ouncer off of my original 289 feel about the same weight..... ------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26242
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-29-2004 05:49 PM
It would vibrate for certain if it was a 28 oz flywheel.
A 50 oz flywheel has an overtly large balance weight compared to your original unit.
Is there a number of some kind on the flywheel?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 02-29-2004 09:59 PM
The number thats on the newer 50ounce flywheel is "V2122 - V2123" but its the number of balance holes in it that has me concerned !!!
Alex, I'm sending you a zip file of the pictures I took of it, maybe that'll help you make a determination as to whether I have the proper flywheel or maybe they drilled it out too much, hence now a newer 28 ounce flywheel !!!------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
IP: Logged |
Ken
Gearhead Posts: 4796
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-17-2004 07:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RonnieT:
Ken, It could also be the pressure plate out of balance.
Well Ronnie, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I had the flywheel resurfaced and installed a new CenterForce clutch kit and now my vibration seems to be a thing of the past 
I also installed a Hurst Competition shifter while everything was apart.....love it 
Thanks everyone for all of your help and suggestions !!!
------------------
What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving. Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
Roller Cam - Duration 282'/282' @ 050 220'/220' lift 0.512
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995GT 5.0 Laser Red - 34000 original miles - 5spd - Coupe
2000 F150 4X4
IP: Logged |
ninasteel
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Orlando, FL 32825
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-20-2005 06:51 PM
I seem to have the same problem with vibration right around 2000 to 2500 RPM after replacing my c-4 with a T-5. I normally read the instructions very closely before I do anything, but I don't recall the Clutch kit instructions calling out a balance weight or how it is to be aligned. What should I look for on the pressure plate to tell me where the weight might be? Thanks!! quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I have found that on 5.0 HO engines, if you do not align the pressure plate balance weights with those on the flywheel, you will incur a vibration.
We have fixed many a boched DIY drive way clutch job that way.
------------------
Girls and Mustangs, the only two perfect things on the planet.
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