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Author
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Topic: Early power steering CAN work!
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 3721
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 12-02-2003 08:59 PM
   
I want to send a message of hope to all you folks with early power steering who, like me, have toyed with the idea of ripping it out. It really can be made to work!!! I've just cracked it after four years of trying, and I always knew it was possible because (a) motor magazine reviews of the time never said the cars couldn��t steer, and (b) every now and again you hear of someone else who loves their steering and can't understand all the fuss!
I'm not exactly sure how I fixed it, but here's what happened in the last 24 hours. I already had all new or very good condition original components, but that wasn't enough. Yesterday I noticed that the return hose was (a) a little kinked where I'd bent it to avoid the header - but this wasn't always the case, since I didn't have headers before, and (b) was a little close still to the header, which might cause the fluid to heat up too much.
Then I read some posts from Pierre raving about adding a PS fluid radiator. I happened to have one from a '70 Tbird, which mounts on top of the original compressor.
Now by adding that to the return hose route, I could kill two birds with one stone. The return hose now goes sailing up to the shock tower where it bends gently back to the radiator, then exits the radiator and back to the shock tower before sailing back to the pump.
So I've added a radiator and a lot more hose with absolutely no possibility of it kinking, at full lock or otherwise, and its inches away from any heat source - header or manifold.
Was it the radiator? Was it the hose? Or was it both? Whatever the case, it now steers as well as my 68 Camaro, and that's good enough for me!
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 3721
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 12-02-2003 09:05 PM
Oh, I should add something I know some folks overlook. You all know about that adjustment inside the control valve, right? It took me two years to learn about that, from M&M of course! And it does help some.
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 587
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-03-2003 05:08 AM
Doesn't that feel good !! You will now have a smooth steering at 6500 RPM with 110�� outside 
Now, you can further improve the feeling by adjusting the screw on top of the steering box thus reducing the gear play. I would do this while lifting the car so the front wheel do not touch the ground and always test it at full lock on both sides to make sure it doesn't bind (The gears are most worn in the strait position). Another helpfull tip: fill up the steering box with fresh grease (by removing one of the side screw on top and using a seringe), turn the wheel lock to lock between each seringe squirt)
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Huskinhano
Journeyman Posts: 57
From: Montvale, NJ.
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 12-03-2003 08:05 AM
I removed it from my 66 and don't regret it for a minute! The design of the system will never allow dead center tracking. It relies on deflection of the ballstud in the control valve to route the oil to the appropricate circuit.An old trick to increase steering effort for more road feel is to put a adjustable valve between the high pressure and return hose to "short circuit" the fluid.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 44954
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-03-2003 01:28 PM
Plus leaks suck. Seeing an early Ford P/S system without a leak is like seeing Michael Jackson out on a date with a girl.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Mooney
Gearhead Posts: 1943
From: Marietta, Ga
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 12-03-2003 05:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Plus leaks suck. Seeing an early Ford P/S system without a leak is like seeing Michael Jackson out on a date with a girl.
Hahaha, what about Lisa Marie Presley? I bet Elvis was doing flips in his grave over that one!
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 3721
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 12-03-2003 06:08 PM
I cured the last of the leaks about two years ago. That really is just a case of working through the process, and using hoses with top-quality fittings.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 44954
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-03-2003 06:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mooney:
Hahaha, what about Lisa Marie Presley? I bet Elvis was doing flips in his grave over that one!
Does she count as a girl? 
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'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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adragon8u
Gearhead Posts: 5462
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 12-03-2003 06:20 PM
with Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie. Michael just felt like he WAS with Elvis, so no problem there for him. It's Nic Cage I'm wondering about.
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2690
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-03-2003 06:22 PM
I fall into Simons (b) category
My car has early PS, not a hint of a problem, no leaks and no problems. Im thinking of removing it anyway to free up an extra 10 ponies and to make the front end 25lbs lighter. I just dont think the car needs it unless you are parking the car in an akward situation a lot. As it is the car steers straight, i tightened the gears in the box and now its like a new car. My only complaint is that its still 4 turns lock to lock. I would rather have 2.5 like a modern sports car with rack and pinion. ------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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460-67Stang
Gearhead Posts: 289
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-04-2003 09:11 AM
Yup! THAT's the trick! If you adjust the spring pressure correctly you'll have tight, responsive power steering with no "float".And tightening up the steering box as Pierre suggests also helps a lot. As far as leaks, I have none. The trick is to NOT use the older type control valve. Get yourself a Granada valve (like 1978 or similar) and use it. Why? Ford realized they had a leak problem by then and redisigned the fittings. The Granada unit uses fittings with o-rings. Mine don't leak one bit. You will need to switch to Granada hoses or have a set made up at your local hydraulic hose shop...but it's well worth it. FWIW,
Brian quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
Oh, I should add something I know some folks overlook. You all know about that adjustment inside the control valve, right? It took me two years to learn about that, from M&M of course! And it does help some.
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460-67Stang
Gearhead Posts: 289
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 12-04-2003 09:13 AM
Does anyone have a 65 or 66 power steering setup they'd be willing to sell? I'm looking for a complete setup, including steering box if available. Contact me off-list.
Thanks,
Brian
[email protected]
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 3721
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 12-05-2003 07:36 AM
quote:
An old trick to increase steering effort for more road feel is to put a adjustable valve between the high pressure and return hose to "short circuit" the fluid.
Would this be a valve that activates only at a certain speed??? I know on these modern expensive cars, they have variable power steering that tightens up when you're travelling down the freeway and loosens up when you're in town. Could your trick do this?
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 587
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-05-2003 09:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
[QUOTE]An old trick to increase steering effort for more road feel is to put a adjustable valve between the high pressure and return hose to "short circuit" the fluid.
Would this be a valve that activates only at a certain speed??? I know on these modern expensive cars, they have variable power steering that tightens up when you're travelling down the freeway and loosens up when you're in town. Could your trick do this?[/QUOTE]What Huskinhano is refering to is a simple relief valve that opens at a certain level of pressure (there is already one in the body of the pump to protect it from pressure build-up when you hit the right or left stop). By lowering the pressure of the system you increase steering effort.
To achieve what you describ, you need another input: vehicule speed and this is usually done via an electronic regulation device. There may be some mechanical version of it but don't know of any.
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nickmobile67
Gearhead Posts: 178
From: NJ
Registered: May 2003
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posted 12-07-2003 01:18 PM
I have factory power steering on my 67. Everything in the frontend and power steering system is new or rebuilt. The power assist works fine and it dosn't leak, but it has that straight ahead wander. Any cure to this? I don't want to remove the PS. Fastbacks68, does your car do this? I here it's common. I adjusted the control valve per ford shop manual, no change. What would happen if I set that a little tighter? Would it tighten up going straight? I think the steering box is adjusted ok, but next time I jack it up for an oil change I'll check it again. What lube do you use in the steering box? It's thicker than gear oil, it's like a grease, right? [This message has been edited by nickmobile67 (edited 12-07-2003).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20708
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-07-2003 04:40 PM
"Early power steering CAN work !"BUT WHY ?  ------------------
SCOOP 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 3721
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 12-07-2003 10:04 PM
quote:
The power assist works fine and it dosn't leak, but it has that straight ahead wander. Any cure to this?
I believe the only ways to partially fix that are to play with the alignment, do the Shelby drop, or switch to rack and pinion. I've heard M&Mers say that removing the PS fixes this, but I'd want to try one of their cars out first before going that far. So much of the wandering effect has to do with the road. If I'm driving mine on a perfectly smooth road, I don't get any wander at all.
For what it's worth, my 68 Camaro and my old 68 Charger have exactly the same wandering tendencies.
quote:
I adjusted the control valve per ford shop manual, no change. What would happen if I set that a little tighter? Would it tighten up going straight?
If I understand correctly, tightening it increases the power assist, so that could maybe make it wander even more. I've yet to do that test on a good wandering road. Could you do it for me?
quote:
What lube do you use in the steering box? It's thicker than gear oil, it's like a grease, right?
I use regular grease. I believe that's OK.
One problem that hasn't been addressed here is the ability to brake while turning. I paid particular attention to this yesterday, comparing my Camaro with my Stang. I can feather the brake while turning in the Camaro and the PS is unaffected. But if I brake while turning the Stang, I lose the PS effect - or so it seems. I wonder if this is because of the design of the Stang steering, or if it points to yet another problem.[This message has been edited by Fastback68 (edited 12-07-2003).]
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2690
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-08-2003 07:46 AM
Simon, I cant compare to a camaro anytime soon but I can brake into a turn as much as I like without feeling like the steering gets heavy. My car does wander a little but I blame that on the fact that I need an alignment and have too much toe out. Nickmobile67, you shouldnt have to wait till you jack your car up to try tightening the steering box. Its all accessed from above. I made a big improvement by adjusting mine. ------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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