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Author
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Topic: Toploader vs Sideloader
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65darkhorse
Gearhead Posts: 1282
From: east coast
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 08-18-2003 07:25 PM
 
Just curious, apart from the obvious top and side loading aspects of both trannys, what are the major differences ? Which is more desirable (Toploader?) and why ?thanks,
Nic.
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Hemikiller
Gearhead Posts: 726
From: Killingworth, CT
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-18-2003 10:06 PM
Toploader is a Ford transmission, used in all ford cars that required a 4-speed, and was made by Tremec of Mexico IIRC, even in the good old days. Strong, easy to fix and a decent shifting tranny are its strong points.The sideloader would be a Borg Warner T-10, only used in early 60's Fords, up until 66 I believe. It is an iron case unit in a Ford application, but was notorious for bending shift forks and burring the sliders when powershifted. No real reason to use this one except for originality. Any other sideloader would be a GM or Mopar trans, so they have no bearing on this discussion. The Toploader is heavily supported now, and practically every part is available new. The case is incredibly strong, and the Jerico and Liberty racing trannys are based upon this design.
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 08-18-2003 10:14 PM
I can vouch for the sliders burring on the T-10s  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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BlueMule
Gearhead Posts: 1781
From: Kent Island, MD USA M&M # 2423
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 08-19-2003 07:19 AM
My T-10 did too. I believe they also had a different bolt pattern at the bell housing too. ------------------
-Paul 70 Mach1 351C
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT 5.4
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000 'If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.'
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DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead Posts: 1813
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-19-2003 02:23 PM
The Borg Warner T-10's for Fords have the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Ford Toploader. That's how to tell the GM T-10's from the Ford T-10's. BTW, the '65 Shelby GT-350's had aluminum case Borg Warner T-10's.Tracy ------------------
Tracy M&M #245
MAC OS9.1 / Earthlink
1956 F-100 Panel w/429 (3.50 9")
1966 F-100 SWB w/351C (3.25 9" - 3.70 posi for Saturday nights)
Music City F-100's,
1965 GT-350 S/C (2.78 1st & 3.70 TracLok 9")
Music City Mustang Club
Don't focus on the destination....make the JOURNEY the adventure
Visit my Web site: DidgeyTrucker's Website
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65darkhorse
Gearhead Posts: 1282
From: east coast
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 08-19-2003 02:26 PM
thanks for your answers 
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BlueMule
Gearhead Posts: 1781
From: Kent Island, MD USA M&M # 2423
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 08-20-2003 07:23 AM
Really odd (and I don't doubt your info), Tracy. Mine would not bolt up to a 6 bolt SBF bell housing. I had to use a Lakewood scatter shield bell housing. It did, however have splines in the output shaft that were the same as those in the rinkey-dink 2 speed auto that came with the car, a '62 Fairlane 500 with the 170 CI 6 banger. For the 289 and 4 speed swap, I didn't have to change anything from the front yoke on the drive shaft on back to the 8 inch 3.25 rear that was factory equipped in the car. I had no history on it when I bought the transmission. All I knew was that it was originally rigged to a warmed over 260 and that it did work until the 260 ate a valve. Could that be the key? It's issue/manfacture date and those early SBF 5 bolt bell housings? It had a cast iron case and weighed a ton and a half for sure. Any more info might help the others. Thanks.------------------
-Paul 70 Mach1 351C
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT 5.4
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000 'If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.' [This message has been edited by BlueMule (edited 08-20-2003).]
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Bob Hopkins
Gearhead Posts: 362
From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-20-2003 04:22 PM
xx
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Bob Hopkins
Gearhead Posts: 362
From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-20-2003 04:25 PM
Ithink the T10 has same bolt patterm {narrow } as early pre 1965 Ford trans pattern any way my 1961 T-10 390" matches my 1964 Galixie390" top loader and not my 1967 351" mustang wide patterm toploader
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DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead Posts: 1813
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-20-2003 10:35 PM
If I'm not mistaken, last year at a swap meet I saw a cast iron T-10 with the "late" wide bolt pattern. That really caught my eye - a Ford bolt patern T-10.Tracy
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 08-21-2003 12:36 AM
I've got such a wide bolt pattern T10 in my A-code 66 (mid-november build date). A "survivor" tranny which has held up well for over 430k mostly highway miles. It was truly "adult" driven for those miles, however, and has undergone a recent rebuild. It wouldn't have lasted nearly as long had it been raced much or power shifted.I think that the Toploader, with its stronger gears, more available parts, better shift linkage and more durable design is a better tranny, but a T10 works well for what it was designed to do. If I remember, T10s were used behind some of the early muscle from both Ford and GMC, including the early 60s Vettes, Chevelles, Galaxies and even Shelby (although some of these used beefier gears). For daily drivers, I'd prefer a wide ratio Toploader mostly for the gear spacing. I have an 1965 article from Popular Science test driving "three tigers" as they put it--a Corvair turbo, a Plymouth Baracuda 273 "hi-po" and a 271 horse HiPo Mustang. Their complaint, which I share, is that the Mustang seemed to "waste a gear" because of the spacing. The spacing from 1st to 3rd in my T10 is close to what the 3-4 spacing is and is exactly the same as the 1-2 spacing in a late model 5.0 T5 5spd!!! 
Daniel
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Mike W
Gearhead Posts: 135
From: CA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 08-23-2003 09:41 PM
I have a wide bolt pattern T-10 in my 65 GT. I put a 140,000 miles on it with no problems. It had a lot of drag starts. I think I have seen a toploader with the narrow pattern.
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Bill3888
Journeyman Posts: 52
From: Riverside , Ca
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-25-2003 12:58 AM
How do you physically identify a toploader from the T-10 - Is it the location of the shift forks? Did the 64.5 289 D code have a toploader or the t-10? Thanks in advance -
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 08-25-2003 11:34 AM
Your 64.5 likely has a T10 as this was the standard 4spd until mid-1966 or so. If you look underneath your car, on the drivers side of the tranny there should be a bolted plate for the T10. Attached to this plate will be the shift linkage. Toploaders do not have this plate as the access is from the top.
Daniel
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