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Author
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Topic: Swapping stuff- do I have it all?
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Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 255
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 12:27 PM
   
Working with a '70 Mach, i'm getting ready to do my swapping. Coming out is a 302, FMX tranny, and 8" rear end. Going in is a 351C, C6 tranny, and 9" rear end. I have 351C motor mounts, and a C6 tranny crossmember. I also got a new driveshaft that fits the C6/9" drivetrain. I just wanted to double check:-Will the 351C bolt into the engine bay with the 302 brackets in there? -Is the power steering stuff all the same (pump, lines, etc)? -The 351C has long tube headers, and from what I have read, I got the P/S lowering bracket and plan on having it welded in. Can the welding be done when the swap is complete, or does it have to be done w/o the P/S ram bolted to it? -Anybody have a guess how much lower the front of the car will be? I don't plan on changing the 302 coil springs- should I? I figure somebody has done this swap before, and can tell me all the "pitfalls" before I get into it. Nothing like learning from other people's mistakes! Thanks!
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 34763
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-17-2003 12:35 PM
-Will the 351C bolt into the engine bay with the 302 brackets in there?Yes. -Is the power steering stuff all the same (pump, lines, etc)? The pump brackets are different, everything else is the same. -The 351C has long tube headers, and from what I have read, I got the P/S lowering bracket and plan on having it welded in. Can the welding be done when the swap is complete, or does it have to be done w/o the P/S ram bolted to it? It can be done afterwards. {Are you really sure you want to? At the most, I'd just tack it in place, and keep the bolts in.} -Anybody have a guess how much lower the front of the car will be? I don't plan on changing the 302 coil springs- should I? On my Sprint I swapped a 302 for a 351C and it made no difference at all that I could see in the ride height or quality. I figure somebody has done this swap before, and can tell me all the "pitfalls" before I get into it. It's a smooth swap, only the alternator and P/S brackets are different, really. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Please remember our sponsors,
Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com
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Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 255
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 04:18 PM
Thanks Steve for all the answered questions. I thought I read in previous posts that the lowering bracket for the P/S ram had to be welded or it would bend due to the force the ram places on it. I suppose a tack weld would accomplish the goal just fine, though.
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GeerWerkz
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: Snohomish, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-17-2003 07:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle:
Working with a '70 Mach, i'm getting ready to do my swapping. Coming out is a 302, FMX tranny, and 8" rear end.
You got plans for the 8" Rear? It looks to me like you're local and I'm in need of a replacement for the 7 1/4" currently in my 67.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 34763
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-17-2003 07:24 PM
Your car wasn't originally a Mach 1, was it? They didn't come with engines smaller than a 351 or 8" rears in '69 and '70. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Please remember our sponsors,
Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com
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Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 255
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 08:39 PM
Well, it's my Uncle's car that I'm doing the work on. Yeah, it's an origional Mach 1 according to the VIN# and fading door tag. As I recall, the VIN goes 0F05Hxxxxxx- I don't recall the production# right now. It has a tranny code X, DSO #71, axle code #6, interior code #3A, body type #63C. The tag is really hard to read (would love to get a new one made) but thats what it looks like is there. The car came from a dealership that sells older muscle cars, so I have no idea what this car has been through to get to it's current configuration. But its being put into it's "origional" form by us now. Had to take a guess that it was a 351C and not a 351W- one is as good as the other for our purposes, I guess. I'll bring it to Belleview this July for the Doo-Dah.GeerWerkz- I don't think the 8" is spoken for. I'll be doing the swap in early May. As long as my Uncle has no plans for it, it's yours. It won't have the breaks on it, though. I hafta use them on the 9". Don't know if the 7.25" has the same brakes or not. I have a couple of FMX's too if your in need. Email me a little closer to May.
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 398
From: South Central MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 04-17-2003 09:23 PM
My 70 shop manual decodes those #'s to: conventional 3:00 rear end, doesn't specifiy 8" or 9", Black vinyl with red strip interior, an FMX automatic transmission, and the H in the vin # shows a 351 2v engine, doesn't specify cleveland or windsor, and the dso code shows built in Los Angeles, and body type 2-door fastback "mach 1".  ------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 302 with 600 holley, aluminum intake, headers, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.25 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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71RESTO
Gearhead Posts: 1293
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 04-17-2003 10:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle:
Thanks Steve for all the answered questions. I thought I read in previous posts that the lowering bracket for the P/S ram had to be welded or it would bend due to the force the ram places on it. I suppose a tack weld would accomplish the goal just fine, though.
ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY get the bracket welded to the frame!!! Bolt it to the frame just like the original, but then go and get the entire bracket welded to the frame (it can always be ground off if you want to change back). On my '69 Mach I just had it tacked, and like you said, due to torque from the ram it wound up ripping the bolts right out of the frame and tore the backside of the frame. On my daughter's '66 I didn't even risk it and after installing the headers and bracket, drove it to a body shop and had the bracket welded permanently. No more frame or bracket problems!!  ------------------
Duane
71 Fastback (his) under resto (351C-4V C6 auto)
73 Mach 1 (hers) (351CJ 4 speed)
66 289/2V coupe (daughter Ashley's)
89 LX 2.3 convertible (daughter Amanda's)
M & M Member #730
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-18-2003 07:59 AM
I have Long tube headers in my 1969 Sportsroof (with a 351W and P/S). I just recently saw this part for sale in one of the Mustang catalogs, and wondered how I missed it when I got the car all completed about 3 years ago. It says it is a bolt on part, and I was thinking of ordering one in the near future. I wonder if it is necessary for all applications, as I have no problems that I am aware of, just thought it would be good insurance. Does anyone else have this bracket, and what is the general consensus concerning bolting and welding it in place? Anyone else running headers and not using one? It boggles me that I missed it to begin with, and had no idea that welding was recommended by real life user's. Interesting.
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71RESTO
Gearhead Posts: 1293
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 04-18-2003 08:41 PM
Skips,
That bracket can be purchased at any aftermarket speed shop that sells headers. The bracket I bought happened to be from Hedmann, but I think there's other manufacturers as well. The brackets all bolt to the frame, but don't rely on the bolts alone to hold it in place because sooner or later it will work loose. In my book, it is easy to get welded and some nice insurance.
Now, having said that, if your cylinder doesn't hit the headers (or close enough to burn the boot), then you should be alright. On my '69 however, I couldn't even get the headers in without it, so I don't know how yours worked.------------------
Duane
71 Fastback (his) under resto (351C-4V C6 auto)
73 Mach 1 (hers) (351CJ 4 speed)
66 289/2V coupe (daughter Ashley's)
89 LX 2.3 convertible (daughter Amanda's)
M & M Member #730
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 34763
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-19-2003 07:40 PM
If your headers fit without it, by all means don't change it. In fact, consider yourself lucky. The cast iron factory part is 10x better than the cheap sheetmetal aftermarket jobs any day.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Please remember our sponsors,
Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com
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