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Author
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Topic: Master Cylinder for Manual Disc Brakes?
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horseballz
Gearhead Posts: 296
From: LasVegas,NV
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 03-19-2003 11:12 AM
 
What to do,
I'm getting a complete original style front disc brake setup including calipers, spindles, etc. from a '69 Mustang originally power assisted to put on my '68 Coupe. I would like to go with non power set up to avoid pedal changing issues (I hate under dash work).  What is the best master cylinder to use for this that won't require me to break my seat back to stop? Application that the master cylinder is from or a part number would be great. Car currently has manual drum brakes and I'm basicallly looking for a bolt in piece. Also what should I do for a proportioning valve?
Thanks for any and all comments/advice,
??????????
gene (horseballz)------------------
'68 coupe
289/3speed(soon to
be 5.0/5speed)
'85 F150 Beater
300/Overdrive Stick
Pre-dented&scratched
'02 Ranger 4x4 Edge
'02 Miata
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-19-2003 12:01 PM
I`m not sure if everything is identical, but I would try a master cylinder for a 78-82 Fairmont or 79-early 80`s FOX Mustang with manual disc brakes. To the best of my knowledge, all the 67-73 Mustangs with factory disc brakes used a power booster.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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Tea'sGrabber
Gearhead Posts: 276
From: Seattle, Wash.
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 01:20 PM
I did the disc swap on my Maverick. I didn't change master cylinders or proportioning valve and they work great! I left the manual drum brake mastercylinder and valve in place.------------------
Todd 71 Mav Grabber All orig 306 cu.in. Cast Iron heads. Carillo Rods.Best et. 10.71 @ 124 thru the mufflers.
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 02:56 PM
Check out www.mpbrakes.com They give a lot of good info on conversions to manual disc brakes.
I have a 69 Mustang with power front disc brakes. I had a pretty healthy cam in the past with low vacuum so changed to just manual brakes. I removed the vacuum booster and bolted on a drum/drum manual master cylinder. I also switched to a manual brake pedal. There is more leverage with these pedals than the power ones. It worked fine. At the time (about 15 years ago) I did not have any info on what master cylinder to use to convert to manual discs so I just used the drum brake unit. I think you need to use the master cylinder with the larger resevoir for the disc brakes (front). Disc brakes require more volulme than drum brakes. MP Brakes has the correct part for this. I went to a milder cam so I put the power unit back on. I may go to the correct master cylinder for non power applications if I decide to go back to a wilder cam.  Get the manual brake pedal though. It cuts down the pedal effort significantly. It is a pretty easy swap. Hope this helps.
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-19-2003 07:14 PM
quote:
To the best of my knowledge, all the 67-73 Mustangs with factory disc brakes used a power booster.
I've got a sneaky feeling you're wrong.
Anyhow, I have non-power discs using a disc/drum MC from a 72 Stang. I got it without the rod connecting to the brake pedal. I think you'll find that if you take an MC from a power disc setup, the worst you'll have to do is change the rod 'cos the length might be wrong.
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 07:45 PM
I could be mistaken but I think Rory is right. I never heard of any 67-73 Mustangs with manual front discs. I think you might find some that have been converted by previous owners. Just IMHO.
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Fstln69
Gearhead Posts: 564
From: Westmont,il
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 08:30 PM
In our 69 fairlane i did the disc brake conversion using granda brakes and used a 84 ranger non power disc brake master cyl.
Dennis------------------
69 fairlane 351w 12.94@103mph before M&M.. after??
always in search of more HP and faster ET'S Fstln69 Pics Page
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 08:57 PM
Hey Dennis, did the Ranger MC bolt right up to the Fairlane firewall and what pushrod did you use? Looking for options in case I go back to manual discs and get the booster out of there. Thanks.
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-19-2003 09:23 PM
I used the same Ranger m/c in my '65... mounting flange is identical, piston depth is identical allowing you to use your old pushrod  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-19-2003 09:53 PM
If I recall correctly the pushrod locks into the MC. How do you get it out of the old MC? 
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-19-2003 10:16 PM
On the 68-73 MCs at least, you just pull it out. There's a clip type thingy that goes round a groove in the rod, but that doesn't present a problem.
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Fstln69
Gearhead Posts: 564
From: Westmont,il
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-20-2003 12:12 AM
It bolted right up and looks like the 69 unit also used the original rod,only thing i did do was install an adjustable prop valve but i am still playing with that
Dennis
------------------
69 fairlane 351w 12.94@103mph before M&M.. after??
always in search of more HP and faster ET'S Fstln69 Pics Page
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rm302 boss
Gearhead Posts: 680
From: Austin Texas
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-20-2003 12:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
[QUOTE]To the best of my knowledge, all the 67-73 Mustangs with factory disc brakes used a power booster.
I've got a sneaky feeling you're wrong.
Anyhow, I have non-power discs using a disc/drum MC from a 72 Stang. I got it without the rod connecting to the brake pedal. I think you'll find that if you take an MC from a power disc setup, the worst you'll have to do is change the rod 'cos the length might be wrong.[/QUOTE]The only way a 69-70 Mustang came with disc brakes is power disc master and booster. I have found that the original brake system does not respond well to a manual master cylinder.The only way i found a good pedal is to use a Wilwood master cylinder with a 1 1/16 bore.. This gave the best pedal feel and less travel.. I went round and round with my brakes on the 70 doing just what you are now... In my opinion i would rather use a Maverick or Granada disc brake front end over the 69-70 it has lots of flaws and is very expensive to maintain. Parts are hard to come by and the set up is not very user friendly..
Rene ------------------
1970 Boss 302
1990 Taurus SHO
1985 Mustang GT 351W
1995 Land rover Disco
1980 Triumph Spitfire (auto-X car)
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1421
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-20-2003 08:38 AM
I used the Wilwood master for a while with a Granada front and Eldorado/Mk VII rear disk setup.
I never felt confidant that I would have adequate braking in a "suprise" situation.
It worked fine if you planned on stopping..
Finally broke down and installed a booster with versailles type master cylinder and now have wonderful brakes.
I did need a vacuum cannister however with my cam (10.5 to 11" vac at idle).
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