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'64 1/2 to '68 1/2 -- The Classic Mustang

Which new distributor?

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Author	Topic: Which new distributor?
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-07-2003 07:40 PM Ignition... Something I have not had much luck with lately. my IgnitorII stopped working before christmas. I did nothing to it, one minute working fine, next day no spark. Points are back in and the car starts and runs, but a quick inspection shows my 5th set of points in as many months is going bad already. I have a new resistor wire which has made no difference to coil voltage (still at about 11 volts with the igntion on). I want to go to a precision breakerless distributor like one of the following: Accel Billetproof MSD Billet Mallory Unilite I tried ordering an XR-i crane points replacer unit from Jegs but its on back order and I think I will cancel the order because its going to take for ever. So with the above distributors I have noticed some differences. The Accel unit has a vacuum advance, the other two dont. The Accel and mallory distributor caps have female posts, MSD has males. I would like the male posts because then I can use the sexy Ford racing wires, Alex (moneymaker) has stated the male posts are better, and the MSD unit does look better from that perspective. The questions are, 1) Which coil do I need to use (I have a pertronix flame thrower) with which distributors? I dont want to spend a lot of money on other control boxes unless I must. 2) Do they need the resistor wire in the car or full battery voltage? 3) How do they run without vacuum advance? Looking for some opinions, I have heard people bad mouth the mallory unit, anybody use an accel distributor? MSD sounds good but looks like i need more equipment = $big Main aim is reliability, low cost. My engine is mild and will never be a wild cammed barnstormer. maybe a 270S cam in the future at most. Thanks in advance, im at my wits end. ------------------ '68 coupe 289 C code edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-07-2003 07:43 PM I like MSD products. If it's economy in cost you are looking for then you can't beat a junk yard FoMoCo Duraspark. Cheap to buy and easy to install. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-07-2003 07:46 PM lets say for a budget I have about $400 total to spend (I want some new 9mm wires, wire seperators and any coil, caps, rotors, control boxes to be included in that budget)
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-07-2003 07:52 PM Alex, You mentioned that you sell the Ford racing wires. Could you set me up with MSD distributor and equipment for around $400? I have my summit catalogue beside me and it seems that the MSD billet distributor requires a control module like the MSD 6, 7 or 8. Seems like module (6A) + distributor would be close to my budget limit - would my current coil work? Does anyone make new or rebuilt duraspark units? Thanks That was a quick reply by the way.
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-07-2003 08:41 PM This one has very easy hookup. http://www.performancedistributors.com/forddui.htm Not an original Ford part but......
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 912 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-07-2003 09:41 PM You also have the choice of the MSD Pro Billet Ready to Run Distributor that does not require a box. Just wire it in and go. http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=search.asp%3FType%3Dbysummitpart%26Part%3Dmsd-8352%26Search.x%3D1%26SearchType%3DBoth ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-07-2003 10:08 PM Im being spoilt with choices now. I noticed that Pertronix also has an HEI style distributor (mustangs plus), but I havent had much luck with them (Pertronix) so far. Im intrigued by the MSD Pro billet. What are the three wires for in the fancy looking plug? One to the - on the coil one to the + on the coil where does the other go and why the fancy plug? Perhaps the picture is misleading. The Summit catalogue shows two of these, one with vacuum advance and the other (presumably without vacuum advance) that is "ready to run with stock ignition". The picture on the web page shows the one with vacuum advance. The DUI duraspark kit looks nice too, I could stretch to buy the Ford motorsport wires afterwards.
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-07-2003 10:26 PM quote: Originally posted by indyphil: The DUI duraspark kit looks nice too, I could stretch to buy the Ford motorsport wires afterwards. That's actually a GM HEI unit. You do away with your resistor wire and give it 12 volts in run and start.
67coupe Gearhead Posts: 491 From: dallas NC usa Registered: Nov 2000	posted 01-07-2003 10:54 PM im with alex for street duraspark is great less than 100 for a reman dist and a new box from most auto parts stores ------------------ Josh 67 coupe with 351c 8.41 in the 1/8 1.90 60' at 82.03 mph 94 Explorer 30 model A currently rustbucket in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5 [This message has been edited by 67coupe (edited 01-07-2003).] [This message has been edited by 67coupe (edited 01-07-2003).]
kcode Gearhead Posts: 3415 From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-07-2003 11:36 PM Comments from a non-conformist, no MSD products, except for plug wires. I've got an Accel Billetproof on my wifes 66 and a Mallory unilite on my coupe. Both can be converted to the spark plug type cap, which I have done on both of them. Both have the small diameter housing. The Accel has vacuum advance, which is adjustable externally, good point if you are economically concerned on city driving. Both are stand alone, meaning no boxes are necessary. On the Accel, if you decide to run a box, like I did, the 300+ digital ignition, you have to remove or disable the internal amp in the distributor. The only problem I have ever had on the Unilite is chewing up a drive gear, which was no fault of the distributor. All in all, for a street driven car, most of them are all created equal. Mike
Hemikiller Gearhead Posts: 726 From: Killingworth, CT Registered: Feb 2002	posted 01-08-2003 07:19 AM My ignition of choice for a street/strip car would be a reman Duraspark and an MSD 6AL (or Digital6), with an MSD Blaster coil. I've had excellent luck with this setup. All you have to do is change the plug on the Duraspark, and hook it up to the MSD per directions and you're way ahead on ignition power. Nice part is that the Duraspark is about $50 at a parts store, and if it cooks, you can get one anytime, anywhere.
Hell_Fish Gearhead Posts: 911 From: Austin, TX. Registered: May 2002	posted 01-08-2003 09:09 AM Be careful with the coil choice. The wrong coil can zap your system and you will be in the same boat you are now.
68DARKHORSE Gearhead Posts: 446 From: Austin, Tx Registered: Aug 2002	posted 01-08-2003 10:04 AM I have a '74 351W and 300+ ignition. What year model (duraspark) do I ask for at the parts counter?
Jeff Gearhead Posts: 306 From: Moore, OK USA Registered: Mar 2001	posted 01-08-2003 02:10 PM There are classes of electronic ignition systems. Its important to distinguish one class from another since they perform quite differently. a. Mallory Unilite, Pertronix, others. These electronic distributors have electronic points and use a coil similar but not identical to a conventional coil. Some can trigger a conventional coil but generally work better with an electronic coil. The difference between coils is the number of windings in the coil. b. Mallory HyFire, Crane, MSD, others. These are capacitive discharge ignition systems having control electronics in addition to electronic points. The electronic points serve to trigger the control box that in turn triggers the coil. Whats the difference? Type (a) above simply act as an electronic switch replacement for the mechanical points. 12 volts primary remains the source of power for the coil. Type (b) above have a control box containing an inverter, a capacitor, and a triggering circuit. The inverter turns 12 volts into 300 volts. This is why your MSD box whines, it is charging a capacitor when whining. (similar to how a photo flash camera operates). The capacitor stores sufficient energy to trigger the coil with 300 volts. This is a lot higher primary voltage and hence the secondary spark discharge is a lot hotter spark. In addition, some control boxes have rpm detection (tachometer circuitry) built-in that monitors the engine rpm and makes the spark discharge for a percentage of the engine cycle rather than a one time spark. The duration of the spark is controlled according to the rpm. At low rpm the spark is long and as rpm increases it shortens however it stays sparking for the same number of crankshaft degrees regardless of rpm. This is a huge advantage over conventional single spark ignition systems. That said, Unilites and Pertronix can trigger MSD boxes, or Hyfire boxes or a conventional coil, so if you don't have the bucks for a full CD ignition system, you can buy the electronic distributor now and the control box later. AFAIK, Mallory makes Unilites with dual advance (vaccuum and mechanical) and makes mechanical advance only distributors. The part number determines what you get. Most Mallory dual points distributors can be converted to Unilite. The cost was $100 the last time I checked. You can also get Mallory Unilite modules for Ford distributors (Pertronix competitor). Some folks claim the Unilite is less reliable than Pertronix because its more subject to failure. Mallory makes a power filter for Unilite to improve its noise immunity and hence improve reliability. Duraspark I is a good compromise between the state-of-the-art CD ignition and the old conventional ignition. It is a CD system not having multiple spark control. It is a lot hotter spark than conventional however. Duraspark II and later Ford ignitions are state-of-the-art.
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-08-2003 02:55 PM Thanks for all the comprehensive advice. I will go and ask about a duraspark over at NAPA tonight. I am seriously considering the following: MSD Pro Billet Accel Billetproof Rebuilt Duraspark I dont want to buy the multispark boxes yet but It sounds like I can upgrade later If I want to. Thanks again Phil ------------------ '68 coupe 289 C code edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust
n2oMike Gearhead Posts: 3058 From: Spencer, WV Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-08-2003 03:15 PM The MSD makes it SO EASY to change the advance rate, total advance, etc. Plus, this unit doesn't keep wildly advancing the advance past where it would stop. You set it for 19 degrees of distributer advance... and it does the job. It has it all in whenever you tell it to, then it STOPS! It's one of the best $160 I spent on my car. Couple this with the MSD Digital 6+, ($279) and you've got a modern (easy to set up) ignition that has a 2-step and ignition retard (for future nitrous) already built in. As a bonus, everything is controlled by dials. The digital circuitry is very reliable and efficient, and puts out a lot of power. It also doesn't have to have a 100% fully charged battery to fire the plugs. (like the 6A and 6AL analog series units) That's what I'd do, if I had to start over with a new system. MSD Super Conductor wires are also top notch. I had these, decided to get new wires and decided to save some money with the Accel 300+ units. After working with the first one, I picked up the phone and ordered the MSD units. Do it right the first time... Good Luck! ------------------ Mike Burch 66 mustang real street 302 4-speed 289 heads 10.63 @ 129.3 http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367 http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-09-2003 12:18 AM The DUI stuff is garbage. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 From: Senoia, G.A. USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-09-2003 07:05 AM Before almost burning my car last night I went to NAPA. I can get a duraspark disributor and coil and module for about $120. I looked at the module and it had about 6 wires coming from it. Where the heck do they all go? they will be getting the distributor in today so I will take a look at it.
Hemikiller Gearhead Posts: 726 From: Killingworth, CT Registered: Feb 2002	posted 01-09-2003 07:24 AM Here you go: [This message has been edited by Hemikiller (edited 01-09-2003).]
Hemikiller Gearhead Posts: 726 From: Killingworth, CT Registered: Feb 2002	posted 01-09-2003 07:28 AM For you guys that are looking to do this swap: 289/302: late 70's 302 truck etc. 351W: late 70's 351W truck 351C: late 70's 460 f-350 truck 429/460: same as 351C
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-09-2003 10:16 AM There ya go! ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 912 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-12-2003 12:29 AM On the three wires from the MSD I would have to guess that 1 wire is a hot from the ignition switch, and the other 2 go to the coil. I could not find a wiring diagram, but the plug is so they do not have to make the wires a mile long or have splices in them. Makes a much cleaner installation. ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23
Hemikiller Gearhead Posts: 726 From: Killingworth, CT Registered: Feb 2002	posted 01-12-2003 09:49 AM www.msdignition.com They have instruction manuals available for download. I second Alex that DUI is crap
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-12-2003 01:19 PM One of the few companies I have encountered where the tech support staff is so rediculously condesending you just have to hang up on them. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-12-2003 02:53 PM quote: Originally posted by Moneymaker: The DUI stuff is garbage. How so? My truck was converted from points to HEI and it works great.
Red65 Gearhead Posts: 116 From: Northglenn, CO, USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-12-2003 02:56 PM What's the difference between the MSD Billet and Pro-Billet distributors?
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-15-2003 05:29 PM Pro Billet's have dual magnetic pick ups. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
Mpcoluv Gearhead Posts: 1421 From: Charlotte NC usa Registered: Apr 2001	posted 01-15-2003 05:58 PM quote: Originally posted by Moneymaker: The DUI stuff is garbage. Really? I have friends who love it. I think the Da*n thing is too large to clear a 14" air filter though..... What else is wrong with it?
Red65 Gearhead Posts: 116 From: Northglenn, CO, USA Registered: Jul 2002	posted 01-15-2003 06:04 PM Are the dual magnetic pickups worth the extra $$ for a car that will only see occasional track time?
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 912 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-15-2003 07:36 PM Alex, I thought the difference in the Billet and Pro Billet was the construction of the housing. The Billet unit has a Rynite base that the cap attaches to and the Pro Billet base is aluminum. The Small Diameter Pro Billet that I have for my 351W only has 1 pick-up. ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-15-2003 09:43 PM Both of my small cap 289-302 pro billets have dual pick ups. I assumed that all of the other por bilets were the same. I'll have to look in the cataloge at the rest of the applications. The DUI's I came in contact with all failed. One I bought for a customer, one that a customer brought for me to install, and one a GM friend bought and failed that he brought to me to spin on my distributor machine. All had low quality modules that would fail when cold or hot. We tested them in heat and in a freezer. When I called and my GM mechanic friend called their tech dept, we were both treated like children and told we should return the units at our expense for testing. Then they would be shipped back to us at our expense after they were trouble shooted. There is more, but what difference does it really make. On two of the three we replaced the modules with high quality parts and reinstalled them. The third I replaced with another distributor entirly and the customer has never looked back since. It hangs on my wall of shame 'till this day. End of story. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-15-2003 10:16 PM quote: Originally posted by Moneymaker: It hangs on my wall of shame 'till this day. End of story. The module or the distributor? If it's the distributor and it fits a small block Ford, wanna sell it?
SteveLaRiviere Administrator Posts: 48752 From: Saco, Maine Registered: May 99	posted 01-16-2003 08:44 AM quote: Originally posted by 69 Sportsroof: The module or the distributor? If it's the distributor and it fits a small block Ford, wanna sell it? LOL!!! ------------------ '70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Please remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-16-2003 09:26 AM quote: Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere: LOL!!! Actually, I'm serious.
68DARKHORSE Gearhead Posts: 446 From: Austin, Tx Registered: Aug 2002	posted 01-16-2003 11:10 AM quote: Originally posted by n2oMike: decided to save some money with the Accel 300+ units. After working with the first one, I picked up the phone and ordered the MSD units. What problems did you have with th 300+?
SteveLaRiviere Administrator Posts: 48752 From: Saco, Maine Registered: May 99	posted 01-16-2003 11:38 AM quote: Originally posted by 69 Sportsroof: Actually, I'm serious. He may have some shorted spark plugs wires too, if you ask him. Just messing with ya! ------------------ '70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Please remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 29200 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-16-2003 12:21 PM I'll ask the owner of the unit, but I doubt if he want's to sell it. He likes looking at it hanging up on our wall when he comes over. Kind of like a trophy head if you know what I mean. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03 Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 Professional Manwhore The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com
69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 From: Valley, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2002	posted 01-16-2003 01:18 PM Hey Alex - Got any shorted out.... nevermind... Please ask the guy. The worst thing he can do is make a few bucks back on his purchase.