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  Tremec in place of a Toploader...

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Author Topic:   Tremec in place of a Toploader...
n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1641
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2002 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How many of you have considered this? Overdrive would be nice. I'll probably not really do this, but it looks like all that's really needed is a spacer to go behind the bellhousing.

The Tremec has the same bolt pattern as the toploader, and the input shaft of the standad Tremec uses the small toploader (1-1/16" 10 spline) design, but the shaft is a little longer. To use a Tremec behind a toploader bellhousing, a spacer plate must be used.

McLeod sells these. It's on page 4 of their online catalog.

http://www.mcleodind.com/catalog.PDF

Part #8624 is their standard small block toploader bellhousing. Part #8625 is the same unit, but comes with a spacer plate for use with a Tremec. The part number of the spacer all by itself is #8607. I would say the spacer could be used with an FE (or other) toploader bellhousing as well. I'd call McLeod to get the details.

If you want to step up to the strongest version of the Tremec, the TKO, or even the TKO II, you get a large input shaft and big 31 spline output. These later Tremecs are STRONG, and will hold up to some serious torque. (the standard Tremec should be fine for anything without slicks, and most cars with them) I belive these TKO trannys even come with the larger slipyoke included.

There are several knowledgable places to purchase these transmissions. One is D&D, another is Hanlon Motorsports. http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/

Hanlon offers a cable clutch conversion for early Ford mechanical applications. Mustang Steve offers a conversion at a good price. Here is a write-up with pictures of his product.

http://www.mustangsteve.com/cable.html

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-15-2002).]

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-15-2002).]

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rm302 boss
Moderator

Posts: 649
From: Austin Texas
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 12-14-2002 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rm302 boss   Click Here to Email rm302 boss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i agree a tremec is a great transmission but, keep in mind your car will have to be modified in a way you may not like... The tremec has a much taller case and the trans tunnel support will have to be cut out of the car(well most of it any ways) you need to know this before installing one. the rear mount and cross membe will also have to be modified as well due to the length. A good friend cut up his 69 Boss 302 to put one of these in a few years ago.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3603
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-14-2002 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cut up a Boss 302?

I wasn't aware of that trans' girth... bummer

First gear is real low anyway, isn't it? Like 3.xx~ something?

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2683
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-14-2002 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To put a Tremec in a 65-66 body the top support around the trans tunnel has to be sectioned.

If you don't want the spacer, the input shaft can be shortened by a competent machine shop. Just my $.02 worth.

My T-5 has held up so far behind the 347 but will be soon be replaced by a T-5-Z with the 2.95 first gear. The current 3.35 is too much.

------------------
Mike Golliver
MCA Gold Card Judge-Modifieds
65 Kcode coupe 347 stroker modified 5-speed MCA Retired
66 convertible-3 dueces and a 5-speed with a 289
89 T-Bird Super coupe
01 Mustang GT Convt

[This message has been edited by kcode (edited 12-14-2002).]

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amartin725
Gearhead

Posts: 111
From: Attleboro, MA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-15-2002 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amartin725     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also available out there in the market is a new input shaft for the Tremec that is shorter and allows it to be directly bolted to the Toploader bell with no adapter.

Al

------------------
Turd's Rule!!
200/3-spd
"200 & 250 Head Under the Knife"

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1004
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-15-2002 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are the tunnel mods only required for some 65/66 stangs?
On my '69 I seem to have plenty of room above the toploader.....

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1641
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-15-2002 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a page that shows trans dimensions and gear ratios.

The Tremec's input shaft is 7.2" long from the front of the trans case, the small block (long pilot shaft) toploader is around 6.5". Big block (short pilot shaft) toploaders are 3/8" shorter @ around 6.125"

Dan Williams Toploaders says you can use a small block (long pilot shaft) toploader behind a big block, but I've heard of people bottoming the input shaft into the crank doing this with some combos as well. The McLeod spacer should be plenty for big block cars, but I'd trial fit the tranny with some clay on the front of the input to double check clearance to be sure. If it's too tight, all you have to do is shave a little off the front of the shaft with a grinder.

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/3550.html

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-15-2002).]

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-15-2002).]

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rm302 boss
Moderator

Posts: 649
From: Austin Texas
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 12-15-2002 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rm302 boss   Click Here to Email rm302 boss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How do you like the T-5 i am geeting ready to do the same from a T-10 to a T-5. I need that 5th gear,i have 3.89 in the rear and it gets up there dam fast. Any hints you want to share like is it better to go with a cable clutch,hyd or old z bar stock?

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2683
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-15-2002 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two things that I suggest doing with a T-5 conversion. First make sure you use a front yoke for a T-5. Second, throw away the stock shifter and get a Pro 5.0 shifter. Might have to open up the trans tunnel opening a little for the shifter to fit, but its well worth it.

I'm using the stock Z-bar, which I prefer, you will get arguments on all clutch mechanics, which is better?. I just like the old style. I also used the 5/8 spacer plate with a stock old vintage bellhousing on both my 65 and 66.

Mike

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69 Sportsroof
Gearhead

Posts: 1226
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 12-15-2002 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69 Sportsroof   Click Here to Email 69 Sportsroof     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rm302 boss:
i am geeting ready to do the same from a T-10 to a T-5.

What 'cha gonna do with that T-10 when you take it out?

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 503
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-16-2002 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
> If you want to step up to the strongest version of the Tremec, the TKO,
> or even the TKO II, you get a large input shaft and big 31 spline output.

Yes, the TKO's have a 1 1/8" diameter, 26 spline big block Chevy style input
shaft (requires a Chevy clutch disc) and a C6 style 31 spline output shaft.
Note that you still use a small block Ford pilot bushing.

> I belive these TKO trannys even come with the larger slipyoke included.

Yes, my TKO came with a C6 yoke.

> To put a Tremec in a 65-66 body the top support around the trans tunnel
> has to be sectioned.

My '66 didn't require anything of the sort. The Tremec TKO cleared the
transmission tunnel without any problems. Thanks to the internal rail
shifter, there are no shift rods on the side so width is not an issue.
Things are tightest on top, but I used a JBA crossmember (tubular with
parking brake) that cants the tail end of the transmission down to provide
the required vertical clearance. To install the transmission, the shifter
must be removed (use a piece of duct tape to cover hole from tunnel crud)
which requires the lateral shifter pivots be tightened after the transmission
is installed. The front pivot bolt requires an obstruction box wrench to
reach, otherwise everything is easy to get to. I don't know if JBA is still
selling the mounts but I believe others (like Darkhorse) are.

With my combination of engine, transmission, and rear end, I had to use
wedge shims on the leaf spring mounts to get proper driveline phasing.
Another guy I know had a TKO installed in his '69 behind a 428CJ. His
installer opted to shim the trans mount to level the engine so the shaker
hood scoop was at the proper angle. A little tunnel work was required in
that case.

> Are the tunnel mods only required for some 65/66 stangs?
> On my '69 I seem to have plenty of room above the toploader.....

No modifications necessary on my '66 fastback with Tremec TKO and
scattershield.

Dan Jones

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1004
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-16-2002 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read somewhere (maybe on this site a while back) that one of the mustang production plants put the lateral stiffener in a different spot in the trans tunnel.
Maybe this is the reason some say surgery is required, and some do not require it.
From just eyeballing it, my '69 should have no trouble with a Tremec. In fact it begs for one......

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rm302 boss
Moderator

Posts: 649
From: Austin Texas
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 12-16-2002 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rm302 boss   Click Here to Email rm302 boss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 69 Sportsroof:
What 'cha gonna do with that T-10 when you take it out?

Well the T-10 in the car i will keep just in case this does not work. I have another one that has a damaged 3rd gear and a loud reverse. i all ready have the rebuild kit with a new counter shaft and all new forks and sync's for it and now have no use for it.
Rene

------------------
1970 Boss 302
1990 Taurus SHO
1985 Mustang GT 351W
1995 Land rover Disco
1980 Triumph Spitfire (auto-X car)

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