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Author Topic:   '71 trim question
ciscokid
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Posts: 121
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-06-2002 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the details of the exterior trim for a '71 Mach I?

I have a couple of particular questions. Did all Mach I's have body colored front bumpers, fender and hood trim? Or were some painted and some chrome? Did all Mach I's have the chrome body trim that runs along the sides above the rocker panels? Did all Mach I's have a blacked out hood and rocker panels? Was the Mach I gas cap the same as the regular Mustang cap?

Thanks,
Bill H.

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Dave Witthoeft
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From: IL.
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posted 12-06-2002 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Witthoeft   Click Here to Email Dave Witthoeft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine has body color. No chrome. I think only the boss 351 had the chrome bumper. I could be wrong.

------------------
MCA# 48755
71 Mach 1
69 Fastback
92 F-150
M&M#884

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Fastback68
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From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
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posted 12-06-2002 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm still a Newbie to 71-3 Stangs, but I think you'll find the 71 Mach 1 gas cap was a one-off for that year and model. It's the cool-looking shiny one with loads of rivets and no logo.

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MrXerox
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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posted 12-06-2002 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you are correct...Only the Boss had a chrome front bumper and here is a picture of my infamous pop open gas cap he is talking about...

http://www.highbeamads.com/71cap.JPG

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71RESTO
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posted 12-07-2002 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 71RESTO   Click Here to Email 71RESTO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Bill,
I'll try to answer your questions the best I can!

quote:
Originally posted by ciscokid:
Did all Mach I's have body colored front bumpers, fender and hood trim?Or were some painted and some chrome?

Yes, all the Mach 1's had the color keyed fender and hood trim and bumper as standard. The Boss had color keyed fender and hood trim , but a chrome bumper.

Did all Mach I's have the chrome body trim that runs along the sides above the rocker panels?

No, that was an option.

Did all Mach I's have a blacked out hood and rocker panels?

No, that was also and option. I have seen several all stock Mach 1's (my friend has one) that doesn't have any of the black out anywhere on the car.

Was the Mach I gas cap the same as the regular Mustang cap?

No, the Mach 1 had the pop-open cap (the one with rivets around the outer edge) as standard

Thanks,
Bill H.[/B]


I hope this answers your questions.

------------------
Duane
71 Fastback (his) under resto (351C-4V C6 auto)
73 Mach 1 (hers) (351CJ 4 speed)
66 289/2V coupe (daughter Ashley's)
89 LX 2.3 convertible (daughter Amanda's)
M & M Member #730

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cobravenom71
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From: Kissimee, Fl USA
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posted 12-07-2002 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
71Resto, there are a couple of mistakes in your response to 'Ciscokid's' question.
The bright trim that seperates the body color from the black or argent two-tone color along the lower body sides was actually a standard item in the Mach 1 trim package. the lower body black or argent paint was standard on all 71/2 Mach 1's. If you know of one without it, it is incorrect.
In the beginning of the 71 model year, the so-called 'hockey-stick' side stripes were standard equipment and only availible on the BOSS 351. They were not factory availible on the Mach 1.
Because the design of the side stripe does not coordinate with the chrome strip in question, the BOSS 351 used a pinstripe instead.
During the 71 model year run, the BOSS 351 was cancelled, so FORD made the BOSS 351-style side stripes optional on the Mach 1. When the stripes were factory ordered on the Mach 1, the bright trim was deleted and the pinstripe, along with the stripes was applied. This continued for all of 1972.
As for the black or argent painted hood, in 71' it was part of the ram-air option. This option included the two-tone hood paint, twist-style hood pins and the functional ram-air set up with '351 RAM AIR' or '429 RAM AIR' decals on the hood, depending of course on the engine size. On the BOSS 351, which came standard with ram-air, the hood decals said simply 'RAM AIR', with no engine-size designation.This was because the car already had '351' written on its fenders, and FORD felt that having it on the hood also would be redundant.
The hood on the BOSS 351 had a unique paint scheme.Almost the entire hood was painted in the two-tone color. Any other ram-air equipped 71-73 Mustang had the better-looking 'pointed' style of two-tone paint.
Bob Perkins has the only documented factory painted Boss 351 with a Mach 1 style hood paint treatment.
In 71' ram air was availible on any 351-2V or larger engine, but not on the 302-2V. Even though the non-functional 'NACA' hood was a no-cost option on the 302-equipped Mach 1's(flat hood was standard equipment on 302 Machs),ram air was not availible on 302's. Consequently, no 302-powered Mach 1's came factory equipped with ram air, or two- tone 'NACA' hoods.
For 72 & 73, only the 351-2V could be factory ordered with the ram-air option, for emissions reasons.
Incidentally, the front spoiler that is so popular on 71-73 Mustangs was factory availible as standard equipment ONLY on 71 BOSS 351's. An optional front spoiler was never offered by the factory on any 71-73 Mach 1.
FORD marketed the new-for-71 eurathane front bumper of the Mach 1 as a 'spoiler/bumper', therefore negating the supposed need for a front chin spoiler.
For 71 and 72, the two-tone hood paint was availible only as part of the complete ram-air package.
In 73, FORD made the two-tone hood paint optional without the actual functional ram-air. In any case, the hood pins were always included with the two-tone paint, so any two-tone 'NACA' hood that does not have the hood pins is technically incorrect.
None of this applies to the 72-only 'Sprint', which was the only 71-73 style to come factory-equipped with a two(actually THREE)tone FLAT hood.
The pop-open racing style gas cap was availible only in 71, standard and only on the Mach 1.
During the 71 model year, it was determineed that the pop-open gas cap would leak gas if in a rear-end collision, so all of the 71's were recalled and the normal twist-on cap was to be reinstalled. Very few owners actually ever had the recall done, however.(Except for my Dad, however. Luckily, he kept the original cap).
All 72 and 73's, Mach's included, had the twist-on cap.
All 71-73 Mach 1's came standard with the rear honeycomb panel, which was not availible on any other model. There was a black 'camera-case finish' panel availible on other models though.
The front fender & hood trim and bumper on all 71 & 72 Mach 1's was body-colored, and included the black honeycomb 'Mach 1' grill w/sportlamps.
All non-Mach 1's recieved the chrome front bumper, chrome fender and hood trim and the grey,'horse and corral'grill with no sportlamps. this does not include the 71 BOSS 351, which had the entire Mach 1 front end treatment, with the exception of a chrome bumper and the added spoiler.
One notable exception was the 'sports decor' trim package made availible on all body styles in 72. it included the entire front end treatment of the Mach 1, along with a Mach 1-style lower body side two-tone paint treatment. This package did NOT get the Mach 1-only rear honeycomb panel though.
In 73, all Mustangs, Mach 1's included recieved body colored fender & hood trim, and the new-for-73 eurathane '5 MPH' front bumper. All 73's had the vertical front parking lamps in the grill, similar to the 71/2 Mach 1 style horizontal sportlamps.
This change was made necessary by the use of the new 73 bumper, which was so large that the 71/2 style parking lamps(in the lower valance) could never have been clearly visible.
If any 72 Mustang has the Mach 1 style hood and fender trim, and the body colored bumper, it must also have the Mach 1 style grill to be considered correct.All those items were only availible in conjunction with one another, never seperately.
The 73 Mach 1 stripe package was also totally restyled, mostly because of the new front bumper.
Surprisingly, the 71/2 style stripe package was availible as an option on any 73 body style EXCEPT Mach 1's. Because of the front bumper, it doesn't look right.
On the rear of the 73, the tail light bezels and the back panel trim no longer had the black painted trim as in 71 & 72. (The 73 brochure incorrectly shows the black trim on the back.In fact, the 71 thru 73 brochures are FILLED with mistakes.)
Feel free to e-mail me if you have any response to 71-73 specific details. Kit.

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[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-07-2002).]

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MrXerox
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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posted 12-07-2002 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! You know your stuff about the 71-73 bro.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-07-2002 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I probably know too much. It can be annoying to others.
Don't get me wrong.I'm not trying to say that anybodys car should be outfitted a certain way. In fact mine all have some minor inconsistencies.The front spoiler, for instance:It just looks too good to leave off the Mach 1's!
The details about the lower body side trim took me a LONG time to figure out, as there was really no hard-and-fast rule ever printed anywhere that I ever saw.
As a matter of fact, I feel its possible that no 429-equipped Mach 1's came with factory-applied side stripes. I believe this because the 429 option was cancelled before the side stripe option was made availible on Mach 1's.
Now my 429 Mach 1 has the stripes, but I added them.It did not have them originally.
I have seen plenty of 429 Mach 1's with the stripes, but never an unrestored original.
Of course, this is only a suspicion, and I may very well be wrong. I just have never seen one.
The biggest 'offender' that I see (to me, anyway)in the 71-73 style is the two-tone hood. Lots of people paint them and claim that they are factory original, but they don't have the desire to cut three-inch holes in the hood to mount the hood pins.This is technically incorrect.
And, it seems that almost nobody gets the correct shape 'laid-down' for the hood paint. I have had three factory-painted ram-air cars over the years, and I made a very detailed template with measurments when I repainted them. The factory paint on all three of these cars was exactly the same, so I know the template is correct. Ford used a three-piece template to paint these, and you can see where the pieces of the template fit together on a factory painted car. There is ALWAYS a little bit of inconsistincy where the stripes come together at the joints of the template. The areas are on both sides of the hood, about an inch to the rear of the scoop insert.
Unfortunately, a supposed 'factory' diagram for this paint was published in one of the Mustang magazines, and in a few differnt issues. The measurements that they listed are not correct, but a lot of people are using this as 'gospel'.
And a lot of people don't know that the hood pins were a mandatory part of the ram-air/two-tone package.And since the ram-air was a free standing option that does not necessarily show up in the 'numbers'(with the exception of the 429 SCJ-R, engine code 'J', and of course the BOSS 351)), they figure no one will be able to refute the 'it came from the factory' claim.
the other big 'mistake' concerns the exhaust. Or more precisely ,the exhaust tips.
Any 71-73 Mustang with a 4-barrell engine came equipped with dual exhaust. However, only the Mach 1's and Boss 351's came with the chrome exhaust tips, and the rear valance with the half-moon shaped cutouts.
All other 4 barrell equipped 71-73 Mustangs came with the standard non-cutout valance, and the dual exhaust tips were hidden under the valance, and had turned-down tips, like the single exhaust cars.
The chrome tips with the cutouts just look too cool to leave off though, so lots of people install them.
There is also a lot of mixing up of the proper dash board trim pieces when someone converts a non-gauge equipped car to a full tach and gauge car.That's the subject of another post, however. See ya! Kit.

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[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-07-2002).]

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ciscokid
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From: Ooltewah, TN
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posted 12-07-2002 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. Excellent information. Thanks to all who answered.

Regards,
Bill Harris
'71 J code Mach I running in D/SA

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ciscokid
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From: Ooltewah, TN
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posted 12-07-2002 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. Excellent information. Thanks to all who answered.

Regards,
Bill Harris
'71 J code Mach I running in D/SA

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ciscokid
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From: Ooltewah, TN
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posted 12-07-2002 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cobra,
My '71 is an original J code Mach I, 1F05J138389, 63R, 3, 5E, date?, 46, Y, 6.

It has the chrome side strips and the correct hood locks and ram air stuff. The car has been a racecar for most of it's life and is presently configured as a non-MachI fastback since the weight break for running in NHRA stock class was better for the standard fastback than for the Mach I. So my car presently has a chrome front bumper, hood and fender mouldings. It still has the rear honeycomb panel. I am considering putting it back into Mach I trim. Do I understand from your post that the color keyed front bumper was urethane and not painted steel? Pictures I have seen for the color keyed bumpers look like they have a bump over the front license plate that is not present on the chrome bumper, so they are different. I'll bet they are scarce as hell. Are the mounting brackets the same or are they different too?

The trunk lid has been replaced, but I have the original and it is drilled for the rear spoiler. Was the rear spoiler just an option on the Mach I? My front valence looks like it is drilled for the front spoiler, although I cannot tell when it was done or by whom. There are no spoilers on it in its present configuration.

Thanks again for all the info.

Bill H.

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cobravenom71
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From: Kissimee, Fl USA
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posted 12-07-2002 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, the eurathane front bumpers were a really thin and flimsy steel 'frame' or shell covered in eurathane. The bumpers are basically useless as anything except decoration. You could twist them like a pretzel with your hands if you wanted to! I'm not sure, but I think the Chrome bumpers had a different mounting arm set-up.
Yes, they are shaped somewhat differently than the steel bumpers. They have a rather 'wedge' shape to them. I suppose this is why Ford called them 'Spoiler/Bumpers'.
Because your car has the bright side moldings, it shows that it did not have the side stripes applied at the factory.
The rear spoiler was availible as an option on any Mach 1, Boss 351 or plain-old sportsroof (fastback), but never on the hardtop, Grande or convertible.
As far as your front valance being drilled for a spoiler, a previous owner must have intstalled it. Thats very common, because it looks soo right!
Is your car still weraing it factory ram-air two-tone hood paint? If it is, do not repaint it until you have made a very accurate tracing of the original.
Are you going to restore your car to factory specs, or is going to be a driver, drag car , restmod or sunday cruiser?
Send pix if you have any. see ya'. Kit.

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[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-07-2002).]

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Fastback68
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From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
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posted 12-07-2002 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Is your car still weraing it factory ram-air two-tone hood paint? If it is, do not repaint it until you have made a very accurate tracing of the original.

Aw, now you tell me My hood's stripped and primed and I never even thought of that! Is there any way you can share your template? Or is it like a massive roll of paper that would need the world's largest scanner?
Simon

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-07-2002 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are details for the blackout and the stripes in the August '98 and June 2000 issues of Mustang Monthly.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-07-2002 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Simon, I can send you the measurements if you need them, and I can probably send a copy of the template for one side if you want. You use the one side template for both sides.
By the way, Steve, the two articles that you mention from 'Mustang Monthly' have incorrect information concerning the hood two-tone paint for 71-73's. It's pretty close, but not exact.

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ciscokid
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From: Ooltewah, TN
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posted 12-08-2002 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kit,
My car was stripped and repainted many years ago by a previous owner so it does not have any of the original paint scheme left. I am going to continue to race the car in NHRA/IHRA stock class but I would like to make it look sharper. Even though the original color was red with a red interior, the interior has been dyed black (it has the original seats, dash and door panels) and the headliner was changed to black when the roll cage was installed. I'm thinking of painting it a lighter color, like white or grabber yellow, because I like the looks of the black hood/rocker panels on the light color, and because it will be cooler in at the track in the summer heat. At the same time, I am trying to not mess up anything that cannot be easily fixed if I want to restore the car to original condition at some time in the future.

BTW, the car's best ET/MPH to date has been 10.88 at 121. That is with unported heads, stock intake, carb, compression ratio and stock (0.515") lift cam (lots of duration though). It has a C4 and 5400 stall converter and 4.86 gears. 9" radial slicks. I am having a new engine done this winter and hope to be in the mid 10's. The biggest problem with this car is getting it to hook since the weight distribution stinks. The 429 is one heavy honcho.

I'll post a picture when I figure out how to do it.

Thanks again for the info.
Bill H.

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cobravenom71
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From: Kissimee, Fl USA
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posted 12-08-2002 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
10.88 @ 121? Dude, that's sreamin!
I didn't kmnow that a C-4 could be mated to a 429. I know that the C-4's are lighter and more efficient than the C-6's, but I didn't think they were strong enough.
We may both have 429 'Stangs, but it sounds like yours would make mine look like an old glue-nag!
By the way, the pix of my cars are posted here in the photo section under 'cobravenoms71429Mach1' or something like that.

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ciscokid
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From: Ooltewah, TN
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posted 12-08-2002 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kit,
The C4 bolts right up to the 429 if you use the right Ford bellhousing which is the one made for the 351M/C4 combo. The C4 is plenty strong for the 429 and is a lot lighter and has less parasitic drag than the C6. Like Alex D, mine was built by JPT and is a fully rollerized and lightened unit.

You don't know anyone that has a good urethane front bumper and brackets that they would like to get rid of, do you?

Bill

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cobravenom71
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From: Kissimee, Fl USA
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posted 12-08-2002 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I bought mine from Perogies, but only as a last resort. I don't much care for thier business practices.
You might want to check with 'Herndon Pony Parts'. Bill Herndon has always helped me out. He sold me a NOS 71 Mach 1 grill for only a couple hundred bucks when they were going for a lot more elswhere.
The bumper I got was real rough! It looked like someone had spent weeks just carving chunks of rubber out of it. The appearence of the rubber on my original wasn't as bad on the outside, but the metal 'frame' on the inside was so rusted that it was literally crumbling out of the rubber, and causing bubbles in the rubber. I couldn't find anyone who could save it.
I took the rough one I bought from 'Perogies' and spent a considrable amount of time filling and sanding the rubber 'till it was right. It wasn't nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. It came out looking perfect! There is a pretty good article about just that process, 'Repair a 71-73 Rubber Bumper' in the July 2000 issue of 'Mustang Monthly'.
If you need a reprint of the article, I can E-mail it to you.
You know, on the other hand I know of some who have just stripped and painted thier chrome bumpers. It aint perfect, but it looks pretty close as long as your not a bear for originality. Good Luck, Kit.

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-08-2002 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
By the way, Steve, the two articles that you mention from 'Mustang Monthly' have incorrect information concerning the hood two-tone paint for 71-73's. It's pretty close, but not exact.

What is wrong on them?

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PONYMAN
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posted 12-08-2002 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PONYMAN   Click Here to Email PONYMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The paint info from Mustang Monthly must be pretty darn close. My hood was painted according to their specs, and went through a MCA judging, and that was one of the few things that I didn't get counted off for.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-08-2002 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
'Mustang Monthly' shows that the general design is somewhat wedge-shaped, with the edge of the design @ 5 & 1/2" from the edge of the hood at the windshield end, and 6" from the edge near the scoops. In fact, the design is 5 & 1/2" from the edge of the hood at all places from the windshiled end all the way to where it starts to curve by the scoops.
The "MM' article also states that the front of the design is 3" from the hood edge, and in reality it is 2" from the edge.
In the June 2000 issue, they have a FORD PR shot of a two-tone hood convertible on the lead page, and the last page of the article shows a clear overhead shot of the hood that was painted for the article. If you compare the two you can plainly see that the front edge of the 'MM' hood paint is definately too far away from the edge, as compared to the FORD PR shot. The easiest way to see this is to compare the distance between the stripe and the black (1/2"), and then compare that visually to the distance of the outside edge of the stripe to the joint between the hood and the hood-trim.
If painted in the fashion that 'MM' shows, the edge of the black-out will not completely enclose the very front of the ridge that forms the scoop intakes.
I really don't like to denigrate other peoples opinions and statements, but I feel this article has caused a lot of people to incorrectly paint thier cars when what they wanted was a factory-correct appearance.
Over the years, I have had three cars with the factory painted hood. Two black, and one argent and they have all been exactly the same. As a matter of fact, they all had the 'glitches' in the paint in exactly the same place.This makes me believe that this is where the factory three-piece template came together.
I know those are only minor differences, but they are different.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-08-2002 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...And of course if an MCA judge is using the info that 'MM' has 'established', then of course all judged cars will pass thier scrutiny. As we all know, just because an MCA judge says it HAS to be THIS way to get your points,it aint' always the way the cars came from the factory.
At any big event, it is quite common to have a judge deduct points for something that is positively known to have come from the factory as displayed. Yet, the very same judge will often miss something that is totally obvious to any casual observer.
My two favorite examples: A 72 Mustang that was painted 74 Pontiac 'Bucaneer red', which looks nothing like Ford 2B bright red.
And a 73 convertible with the comfortweave seat inserts replaced with a corvette-sourced fabric.(it was close, but not exact)
Once again, I'm not an expert. I just know what I know.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-08-2002 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know, while thinking about this topic I think I finally figured out something that has been puzzling me for about 30 years!
When my dad was selling new Fords at Don Mcmillon Ford in Houston, TX, he always drove Mustang demo's in the summertime.
I CLEARLY remember him driving several 73 Mach 1's that were all 351-4v's, and they all had Ram-Air.I spent many hours washing and fooling around with those cars, and I know they were all factory painted hoods with the hood pins.
I actually have an old poloroid of him next to a white 73 Mach, and the dual exhaust is clearly visible( denoting a 4 barrel), as is the tu-tone hood.
I now think that when my dad ordered these cars(He was the General Manager, and one of the charter members of the M.O.A.), he must have ordered the 4-V cars, and then added the 'tu-tone'hood and hood-pin option, that only looked like ram air. Once at the dealership, they simply bolted on the Ram-air components, added the hood decals, and had 'Factory' looking 4-V ram airs!
Tricky son-of-a-gun!

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PONYMAN
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posted 12-09-2002 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PONYMAN   Click Here to Email PONYMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what is onmy 72. Bought the air cleaner, plenum, flappers, and hood pin comonents and installed them. Hardest part was making myself drill those 3 inch holes in the hood. I was worried that the paint would chip out further than the hood lock would cover, but by laying down 3 inch masking tape over a large area before drilling there was no chipping of the paint at all. I know that they idn't come factory in 72, but nobody notices, and it sure looks good. Only thing that I don't have are those hinge springs with the squared edges. Just never have been willing to spend the money on those, but someday i will.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-09-2002 08:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ponyman, when you say they "didn't come factory in 72", what are you reffering to? The hood pins? They were definately availible in 72. If the optional ram air was ordered, it came with the 'NASA' hood, tu-tone hood-paint, the hood pins, and of course the functional ram air components.
In 72' and 73', the ram air was only availible on the 351 2V, not the 6-cyl, 302 or the 351 4V. This was because of emissions reasons.
In 73', a new 'decor package' was introduced. It was basically the ram air package with everything EXCEPT the functional ram air components.
At any rate, those components were never availible seperately, only as a package.
Therefore, the hood pins always accomponied the tu-tone and vice-versa.

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PONYMAN
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posted 12-09-2002 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PONYMAN   Click Here to Email PONYMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Didn't make myself real clear. I was referring to the the fact that the 351C 4bbl, which is what my car is, didn't come factory with the ram air in 72, just the 2bbl. Sometimes I think what I don't write.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-10-2002 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now I understand...Are there any pix of your car on the site?

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PONYMAN
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posted 12-10-2002 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PONYMAN   Click Here to Email PONYMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some in the members pages under PONYMAN'S Rick Cantwell. They are real old thought. One is before the hood stripe was painted, and the rest are with the hood stripe, but before I bought all the Ram Air equipment and installed them and the hood locks. Loked at your page and do you like this body style or what? The reason I now own one is because my best friend's mother bought him a new blue Mach 1 for graduation in 1971, and my parents couldn't afford anything like that. Now I have mine. I know the Ram Air wasn't factory on my car, but I like it. Also have added the foldown rear seat option to th car and the deluxe sports interior. Mine was a Mach 1, but a very poorly optioned one. Just glad it had the 351C 4bbl, air, power brakes and stering, and C-6, althought the 4-speed would have been nice also.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-10-2002 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I guess you could say I like this body-style. I didn't intentionally get only 71-73's, but since those are the ones I know most about, it helps me bargain em' down when I see one. To be fair though, most of them were in my family. I just got them thru attrition.
I just looked at your pix, and that car is smokin'! I LOVE this car in yellow! Didn't I see your car in one of the mags recently, about your racing it?

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[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-10-2002).]

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PONYMAN
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posted 12-10-2002 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PONYMAN   Click Here to Email PONYMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wish, but it has never been in a mustang magazine. It was in the Goodguys Goodtimes Gazette a couple of years ago, but that was a large group shot of many cars and mine just happened to be there. I guess I know more about 71-73'sa that most other years, including how hard some parts ar to find. Love your 429 car. Red is probably my favorite color, but I stuck with the orignal medium yellow gold on mine.

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Monk
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posted 12-10-2002 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Monk   Click Here to Email Monk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's an invoice that I found on the 429 Megasite that shows bodyside tape stripes on a 429 car.Thought you might be interested. http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/invoice.jpg

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69Mach1 R-code 4-speed 428CJ,71 J-code Mach1 429SCJ C-6 93F150 Flairside 5.8 4wd, 00 4wd XLT Expedition Sport Pkg.

[This message has been edited by Monk (edited 12-10-2002).]

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-11-2002 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Monk, that's great, now I know. It was just a suspicion, but you know how those suspicions can fester and become obsessions, you know? So, now I have another tid-bit of knowledge for my huge inventory of useless information!(That's my wife talkin').
Thanks for thew info!

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ciscokid
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posted 12-11-2002 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any of you guys know where I can get the clips that are used to attach the trim moulding on a '71? There are two different types that I would like to find. The first is a threaded stud that has a little wire spring attached and is used on the trim that goes around the rear honeycomb panel. The other is a little plastic critter that is used to attach the body side moulding to the pins on the doors and fenders.

I have looked in a few Mustang supply catalogs, like NPD and such, but I don't see these things listed.

Any hints would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill H.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-11-2002 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cico' there is a place in Buffalo, NY I used to get my clips from, and they have every type of clip I have ever seen. They have ALWAYS had the right clip when I went in there.
Heres the bad part. I almost remeber the name of the place. It's either 'Globe Auto Supply', or 'World Auto Supply', and it is on Elmwood Ave. in Buffalo, NY. You could probably find it in the phone book. They' can match up your clips with a faxed-photo or description, I think. Good Luck!

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Rob Parsons
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posted 12-13-2002 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rob Parsons   Click Here to Email Rob Parsons     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding is that the lower body chrome was standard on the Mach1 and if you ordered the optional hockey stick stripe the chrome was deleted. Where did you get your information about the stripe being available late year only on the Mach?
Let us know if you think of the name of the place in NY. thanks for the good info. Take it easy on us MCA judges. It is not an easy job and we do the best we can.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-13-2002 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I was wrong about the side stripes becoming availible late in the year(71). Although I know they were not availible at the very beginning of the year. they were probably made availible almost immediately.
I certainly was not tying to denigrate or insult anyone, including MCA judges. I also realize that the information that is used for judging is what is considered to be 'correct', yet sometimes the facts have been muddled and confused over the years.
If you look at the front cover of the 2002 edition of the NPD catalog for Mustangs, there is a beautiful shot of Jeff Ford's 'Lazarus', which was painted using the 'correct'(actually incorrect) factory paint dimensions. Compare the hood paint on 'Lazarus' to the hood paint on the Ford PR shot that is on page 35 of the same catalog, and you can plainly see that they are very different.
It is not likely that the Ford PR shot is some early proto-type that differs from the actual production version because that is a '73, and they had been painting them for a couple of years already.
Also, the three factory ram-air cars that I have owned ALL appeared to be exactly as that shown on the Ford PR shot.
.....The truth is out there.....


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[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-13-2002).]

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Rob Parsons
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posted 12-13-2002 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rob Parsons   Click Here to Email Rob Parsons     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are always exceptions to the judging rules. The rules say one thing and sometimes you will come across an original car that is different. Did you say that Ford used a three piece stencil to paint the hood? Thanks for the good information.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-13-2002 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect that they used a three piece stencil. On all three of my factory ram-air cars, there was a little glitch in the paint on both sides of the design, about an inch bhind where the rear of the scoop insert is.It looks like the misalignment of the stencil caused the glitch. It is on both sides of the hood, and on every factory ram-air car I have seen(mine plus at least ten others)
It appears that the stencil was made up of left and right side 'straight' sections, and a front piece that connected to them. Sure would be awesome to find that thing laying around somewhere!

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ciscokid
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posted 12-13-2002 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a "Global Parts Source" on Eggert Road in Buffalo. I have not called them yet. Does that sound like the place?

So you are saying that the hood blackout on the car shown in the NPD catalog, on page 35, is the correct layout? Earlier you had said that the Ford promo stuff was full of errors. However, this one looks OK?

Thanks,
Bill H

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-13-2002 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You got it backwards.The Ford PR stuff is what I consider to be accurate, and the 'Mustang Monthly' articles are full of errors.
By comparing any of the Ford PR shots to the specs from MM, or thier painted hood, the differences are clear.
As far as the auto supply house, I know it is either called 'World', or 'Globe', and it is definately on Elmwood ave, 2 blocks south of Hertel ave.(Very close to the old 'Pierce-Arrow' building!)

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-16-2002 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cobravenom71: great piece on the 71-3 exterior decor options. Never knew that Ford recalled the flip open gas cap. I really hate that twist off, mainly because they omitted the retaining wire, and they disappear regularly.

I'm like you, I've owned 18 stangs, and 14 of them were 71-73's. Oh, and the 70 Torino GT too.....

My first was a '73 Grande that I'm ashamed to admit what I did to that poor car.....

Here's a link to one of my old cars:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/1971mach1/

Randy's done a ton of work to this one, just a sportsroof, but had a bunch of Mach goodies on it when I bought it, so I finished the job. Added a full gauge and harness set-up, the rear and front spoilers. Axed the original 302/c-4 and installed my first born 351c 4V with a toploader and 3.89's. Won more than a few street races with that one! That red lacquer used to buff up real nice, but only would look good for a couple weeks!

My current project is a totally original 71 Mach, 302 c-4 stripper. I guess it's not a total stripper, it has power brakes and steering, but that's it. Med Blue Metallic, with the blue std interior. I'm going to keep it low option (and weight hopefully) but am going to 351C and 4 speed again. It's a combo that just WORKS!

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-17-2002 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We know that car! Randy was having a problem getting it to ET. Did he ever find out what was wrong?

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Hemikiller
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From: Killingworth, CT
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posted 12-19-2002 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve: I haven't talked to Randy in quite some time. I was able to get the car to run 13.6 (at 3560 lbs w/o me), but that was with a borrowed 800 DP, 3.89's and me driving. I think he needs to get rid of the 750 VS that is on it now. A Holley 800 DP and Blue Thunder or Strip Dominator intake would wake that motor right up as it still has the factory iron 4V intake. He also had a problem with it losing power on the top end, which I think is the lifters pumping up. He may need to re-adjust the valves, I used to set them at 1/2 turn, and shifted at 5800, but they may need to go deeper like 1 to 1 1/4 turns. The 4.30 gears with the Tremec and radial tires was a bad combo in my opinion, but it's not my call anymore. The present cam and intake combo just can't handle the revs......

Last I emailed him, I mentioned some of the above, but I got the impression that he was going to have the motor rebuilt, andchanging things now might have been pointless to him.

I was looking for someone like him when I sold it, because I couldn't stand selling it to some punk who would destroy it. Makes me feel good to see it in such excellent shape today.

A link to my latest project:

http://pages.cthome.net/hemikiller/PicPage.htm

[This message has been edited by Hemikiller (edited 12-19-2002).]

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fordnmerc
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From: Watkins Glen NY USA
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posted 12-22-2002 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Venom--here are a few more things to throw into the 71-73 mix:

I have been seeing a number of 73 Machs with the standard grille set-up and bright headlight bezels, like the standard fastback. One is a local car, genuine Q code Mach, that has been just sitting for about 12 years, because the guy just hasn't got around to restoring it yet. Anyway, the grille is the standard style and doesn't look like it has ever been swapped out. I'm wondering if a few 73 machs came from the factory with the standard grille treatment, for some reason.

I have seen a few 71/72 cars with the standard grille that have a grey or argent paint where the black paint is on most. Another factory oddity?

I have seen a few 71-73 cars with the dual sport mirrors right up in the front corner of the doors, like the 69/70 style, rather than back a ways, like on most 71-73. Another factory oddity?

I have seen 2 73 hardtops recently that had the engine family decal up on the top of the passenger side firewall, rather than on the driver's side valve cover. I hadn't seen that before. One was a very low original mile car.

I have seen quite a number of 71-73 (hardtop body style, anyway) that came from the factory with a rather large dent in the passenger side inner fender well in the trunk. My 73 hardtop was one of them.

My car was built in June of 73 and was several days behind schedule. I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not, but it also came from the factory with no Mustang nameplates on the front fenders, and the front seats were reversed, so that the seatback release handles were inboard. Driver's seat was where the passenger's seat was supposed to be, and vice versa.

Does anyone on the planet know why so many 72-79 Ford and Mercury cars came from the factory with one or both cowl vent plugs missing? And if only one was missing, it was almost always the driver's side. That was the case with my Mustang and with Torinos, Rancheros, LTD IIs, etc. It is weird!!

In the latest issue of Mustang Monthly, did you see the small black and white photos of the Mexican 73 Mach 1, with the huge Mach 1 name decals on the rear quarters, unique paint scheme, and unique interior upholstery pattern? I had never seen a Mexican 73 before. It also has a factory 351 Windsor 4 barrel engine! All on page 15 of the magazine.

In 1970, Ford had a 1971 Mustang show car that was a brown hardtop with a black vinyl roof. The interesting thing about it was that the door handles were the earlier two-piece handle and button style, rather than the normal 71-73 flush mounted handles. Wonder what ever happened to that car?

Have you seen the 1971 Shelby Mustangs? Most people don't seem to know they exist. They were for the European export market only.

I wonder how many people realize that at its longest, the hood of the 71-73 is 69" long! One of my brothers used to joke that a person could lie down full length and sunbathe on the hood of my car! I wouldn't have minded if the girls had wanted to do that!

Yup, you could say that I am heavily into the 71-73 cars, too! I will have one again, at some point in the future.

------------------
David

If you try to think clearly ALL the time, it will probably drive you crazy. :D

1975 Elite 351M
1978 LTD II 302W for sale
1979 Ranchero GT 351W

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cobravenom71
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From: Kissimee, Fl USA
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posted 12-22-2002 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey 'Fordnmerc', great info!
As far as seeing some 73 Mach's with the standard 'corral' grille w/ bright headlight doors, I would assume one of a few possible reasons: They may be standard 'Sportsroofs' that someone 'converted' to Machs.(very common), or they may have been in an accident and had incorrect replacement parts.
Since Ford never officially used these 'standard' parts on 73 Mach 1's, if they could be documented as coming from Ford that way, they might have some extra value, assuming of course that they are actually Mach 1s.
In 71 & 72, the Mach 1's all came standard with a lower body secondary color, either Black or Argent (silver) depending on the main body color. If the car came from the factory with the tu-tone color argent, then the rear spoiler and the ram-air hood tu-tone paint were also in argent, assuming that the cars came with those two options. No car came from Ford with a combination of Black and Argent tu-tone.
The dual sport-mirrors on 71-73's always came with a drivers-side remote-control mirror. Any car equipped from the factory with the dual sport mirrors came with a drivers side door that a square hole, about an inch or so in diameter on the upper portion where the mirror mounted. this was for the remote-cable to run through. I think this would have neccesitated that all the factory-installed sport mirrors came in the same 'fartrher back' location, as the other location would not permit the use of the remote cable. The ones you have seen were probably 'standard' doors that someone mounted sport mirrors to.
I too have seen the different engine-spec decal locations. My 71 Mach 1 (429) has the decal on the drivers-side valve cover. Both my 73's (Convertible and Grande, both 302's) have the decal on the upper passenger side firewall, very near the windshield. I have never really considered the reason for the differences, but I have a possible theory: The decal is very easy to see on the 429, due to the shape of the valve cover. It has a vey vertical outside edge. The 302's however, have valve covers that are shaped in such a way as to make the spec decals almost impossible to see if they were mounted on the valve covers. Maybe this necessitated them moving them depending on engine installation. Who knows? What do you think?
I don't really know what you mean when you say 'dent' on the wheelhouse, but what you describe sounds like the recessed area on the drivers side wheelhouse that makes clearance for the full-size spare tire.
Having the seats reversed is definately a factory oddity if they came from Ford that way!
The big 1/4 panel decals on that mexican car are exactly the same as the ones I've seen from Europe. I e-mailed the owner of a european Mach, and he said "That's the way we do it here in Europe." That does not make it clear if they came 'factory' that way though. I'm waiting for his response. I have seen several like that though, so it may be 'factory'.
The 71 Shelbys are kinda cool.They dont have any mechanical mods that I know of. They werent actually worked on by Shelby, he just licensed them. They had 69-70 style Shelby side stripes, with a rear brake scoop in the same place as the 69-70's. No quarter-panel scoop though.They had a honeycomb panel mounted high in the back that said 'Shelby'. Very similar to the 69-70. They also had 69-style rimblow steering wheels(holes instaed of oblong depressions).The front of the side-stripe had GT-350/500 and smaller letters that said 'Shelby Europa'. On a couple I've seen the sportlamps were not the same as the regular 71/2 Mach 1's. They appear to have been replaced with real driving lights, but that may be an owner installed thing, I'm not too sure. All other trim is standard 71 Mach 1. These cars look surprisingly good like this. There is one featured in the new 'Pepsi Blue' commercial. You gotta' look fast, but its definately a Shelby Europoa.

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-23-2002 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kit, if you don't have a copy of the book 'Mustang Recognition Guide' you should really get a copy. Lots of interesting stuff in there! The 71-73 section has many fascinating photos! I am looking at it again.

That brown 71 show car has the earlier style door handles AND the sport mirrors in the more forward position!

There are several early 71 cars with the mirrors in that position. There is also a 73 base fastback with the mirrors like that and also a 73 Grande.

The Boss 351 prototype is pictured in there.

There is a 71 base fastback with a unique decal on the trunk lid, rather than the M-U-S-T-A-N-G pin letters. The car also is painted argent between the tail lights, rather than having the camera case textured panel.

There is a 71 with standard front end treatment that has chromed bumper guards that are mounted entirely underneath the chrome front bumper and don't stick up above it.

Various photos of 71 and 72 factory cars that are painted argent around the headlights, rather than black as was normal. Standard grilles in 73 were argent, but I didn't know that some 71/72 came that way!

Oh....that dent in the inner fender well in the trunk on the passenger's side that I was talking about was just that. Damage to the piece, before it was installed at the factory! I have seen several more 73 hardtops with that same thing. Nice, clean, factory original trunk compartment, but with a dent in that same piece! Some with a larger dent than others! I still have a trunk photo from the car I had laying around here somewhere. I'll have to see if I can dig it out and see if the dent is visible in the photo.

My 73 hardtop had the 302 and no a/c and the decal was on the driver's side valve cover.

David

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-23-2002 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave: The mirrors all came in the same location. The door skin was stamped with the riv-nut holes and knockout for the remote cable in the press. The cars you have seen are most likely as Cobra described them, owner add-on's or aftermarket items.

The MRG is a great resource of info, but the prototype photos are just that, prototypes. If you look at the Boss 351 rear paint scheme, it is not production style. The deviations you see are those of pre-production mules with parts stuck on with bubble gum and tape.

The tape stripe that is shown on the fastback, is 1971 production. The sportsroof (01 code) received a tape "MUSTANG" id stripe for the '71 model year, then received the cast script in '72, just like on the fenders. The coupe and conv't had the stick on MUSTANG letters in '71, and then got the script in '72 as well.

The dent you are describing isn't possibly damage. It is clearance for the spare tire in convertibles, and fastbacks with the fold down rear seat option. the spare tire was moved to sit almost against the taillight panel in a convert due to the top well, and the inner wheelhouse was clearanced on all cars for parts commonality.

As far as the emissions sticker, I've seen them in both locations, I think it has to do with the production plant and the year of production.

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-23-2002 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hemikiller:
The sportsroof (01 code)

01 is the hardtop. 02 is the sportsroof.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

Be sure to remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, and Osborn Reproductions.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-23-2002 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David, your'e correct, the 'Mustang Recognition Guide' is a great book, but like someone else said, it is filled with pre-production and proto-type photographs. This can and has caused a considerable amount of confusion and disagreement as to what is 'correct' on a factory produced car.
For example, the BOSS 351 pictures are of the pre-production car, and there are several significant differences between that and the actual production units.
The most obvious difference is the flat hood! As we all know, the production BOSS 351 came standard with the functional Ram-Air and 'NASA' scooped hood.
At the rear of the car, the proto-type or pre-production car shows the Mach 1's honeycomb tail panel and trim, as well as the Mach 1 pop-open gas cap, none of which ever came on a production BOSS 351. The pattern of the striping on the rear panel is also totally different than production.
The car seems to sit a little lower on the suspension than is 'normal', and it is also shod with the 'Kelsey Hayes Mag-Star' 2-piece wheels instead of the regular production Magnums (or 2-piece hub caps).
And the color! Talk about bad taste! Ford definately never offered a Vermillion (red) interior with a Bright Yellow exterior on any 71-73 Mustang.
If you look closely, you will also notice that the sport-lamps in the grille have chrome-plated bezels istead of the argent-painted ones of the production versions. They also seem to be mounted at a different angle than on production versions.
The pop-open gas cap also has some black painted detailng not present on production caps.
On my 71 mach 1, I chrome plated the sport lamp bezels, and I detailed the gas-cap to match. Minor differences from stock, but I personally think they look MUCH better that way.
Jeff Ford, the editor for 'Mustang Monthly' saw my car at Carlisle this year and waited around an hour or so for me to return to it just so he could ask me about the sport lamps and the gas cap! I was shocked that anybody would notice. But then again, I'm not the only guy obsessed with details.
One detail that I have changed that not one person has ever noticed is the wheel centers: The centers for the Magnums have 'chrome' horses with a 'chrome' circle around them. I took the centers apart,removed the 'chrome' paint from the horses, and repainted them red, the same color as my car. After being put back together, they look totally stock, except for the different-colored horses. I thought for sure someone would have caught this by now, but none yet!

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-23-2002 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David, I seem to have missed addressing a couple of the things you mentioned. Sorry.
The standard grilles for all 71-73's were argent colored plastic, with a big horse and corral in the center. The 73'3 of course, had bright headlight doors.
The Mach 1 style grilles for all 71-73's were all made of black plastic with a small horse and 'tri-bar' in the center(no corral) and had a honey-comb textured mesh, and the 73 headlight doors were all balck except for the very outside edge surrounding the piece, which was bright.
In 71, the fastback and hardtop came standard without any panel between the tailights, and there was no tu-tone style paint there either.The fastbacks did have a full-width trunk stripe with the letters 'MUSTANG' cut out. This stripe is kinda similar to the Mach 1 stripe, but it sits higher up on the trunk lid, and the corners don't wrap around.
All 72 and 73's came standard with some kind of panel between the taillights.
On another note, I find it interesting that in 71, the Grande's had chrome trim on the trailing edge of the hood and the top, rear corners of the fenders. In 72 and 73 this was not availible on any Mustang, even as an option. I would guess that these pieces are probably very difficult to find today.

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-23-2002 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The '73 Mach 1 had a different grille than the '71-'72 Machs which were identical. {and also used on Sprints and Sport Hardtops}

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-23-2002 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The '73 Mach grille also had a diamond grid instead of honeycomb, IIRC.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-23-2002 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, Steve your'e right about that, the 73 grilles were significantly different. that was because of the change in the front bumper design.
What do you mean by 'diamond' shaped? My 73 Mach 1 has the correct grille and there is no diamond shaped cutouts. They do have a somwhat 'elongated' honeycomb pattern, a kinda' 'squashed' version of the 71-72 Mach grilles. Is that what you are reffering to?

David, I went and checked my 71 Mach 1 (with fold-down raer seat), both my 72 and 73 convertibles, and the 73 hardtop and they all had that 'dent' that you refer to in the drivers side inner wheel house down low by the floor. That is most definately a factory design for clearence for the spare tire when a space-saver is supplied (I errouneously said earlier that it was for the full-size spare).Even though my 73 came factory equipped with the full-size spare, 'David's Dent' is still there. I have a 73 Mach without the fold-down option, but it is in storage and I can't check it right now.
As a side note, all 71-73 Mustangs that came factory-equipped with a space saver spare tire also came with a big, bulky bracket welded to the trunk floor to hold the inflator canister, and to mount the spare to. If yours is original without this bracket, then it came with a full-size spare.

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-23-2002 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
Yeah, Steve your'e right about that, the 73 grilles were significantly different. that was because of the change in the front bumper design.
What do you mean by 'diamond' shaped? My 73 Mach 1 has the correct grille and there is no diamond shaped cutouts. They do have a somwhat 'elongated' honeycomb pattern, a kinda' 'squashed' version of the 71-72 Mach grilles. Is that what you are reffering to?

You're right, I thought they were diamond shaped horizontally.

This pic of Pat's car shows it well:

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-23-2002 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hemikiller, I don't think the 'cars being assembled in different plants' could be an expalnation for the engine-spec decals being located in different spots. I am fairly certain that by 1971, Mustangs were produced only at the Deraborn plant. I think the Metuchen and San Jose plants had been converted to other product lines.

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-23-2002 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, the Metuchen plant was definitely producing Mustangs 'til 73, as I have owned a coupe that was "3T01Fxxxxxx", and my 71 Mach is a Metuchen car (1T05Fxxxxxx). I think that the "T" cars are more prevalent on the East Coast. I have never seen a San Jose car around here after the 70 model year, so that is up to debate.

As far as the emissions decal, my 71 302 Mach has it on the valve cover. My '73 Grande' was a Dearborn 302 car and it was on the cowl. a pair of '72 351C 2V Grande's that I owned were "T" cars and both on the cowl. Like I said, it's just a guess, but there may be some rhyme or reason in there somewhere.

Steve, thanks for the correction, it was late when I posted that....

As far as the MRG, it really needs to be updated. When it was first published, it was the most accurate reference available. Today, it is still the best and most comprehensive, but it is in dire need of some updating and editing.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-23-2002 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I guess my single plant theory is in the crapper.
Maybe they moved the location from the valve cover in 71 to the cowl area in 72? That would fit with all my vehicles.
Here's an interesting question id all Ford vehicles come with a build sheet? The reason I ask is because when I took the build sheet out of my 73, there was a whole pile of them in there! 12 of them, plus the one for my car! They were all different, but nothing really special as far as I can tell. The VIN's were fairly close to each other, but there was some randomness in the consecutive unit numbers. Does that mean that several cars did not get a sheet since a bunch were in mine?

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-23-2002 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You car may have been built late in a shift, and the assy line worker had a pile of leftovers from that day, and stuffed them in your car to get rid of them. My 71 Mach did not have a build sheet anywhere that I could find, and I totally stripped the interior out, even the headliner and the dash (had some cowl rot to fix). Popped open the backs of the seats, and sifted through the remains of the underlayment, but no build sheet. Not that my car is anything special, but it would have been nice....

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-23-2002 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay all....here are some more comments:

As far as the standard 71/72 grille being argent and not black, I can see that now. It has been 25 years since my family had the 72 base Sportsroof, I was only 10 at the time, and memory for little details like that fades. And even in color photos, lots of times it shows up looking black. BUT--it IS a rather dark or 'dull' argent. I have seen some that seem different: brighter silver. Take for example the 72 Grande on page 207 of the Recognition Guide. But that is not the only one I have seen. Well, maybe some owners have painted them brighter. But there 'might' have been some inconsistencies at the factory. (I have 2 pairs of 1975 NOS Ford wheelcovers that were stored in boxes out of the light. They were supposed to be all identical. But one set was made a little later than the other and the blue painted centers on one pair are a bit darker than on the other pair. Enough so that they do not match well at all, as a set of 4.)

Prototypes and pre-production cars equipped differently than production cars. Okay, that makes sense.

The mirrors---I don't know about that one. Maybe pre-production 71 cars had them just stuck on, farther to the front, like 69/70. But what would explain a factory photo of a 1973 car with the mirrors far forward like that? The 73 base fastback on pages 208-209 of the Recognition Guide--that might be a fairly recent photo of an owner's car. If you look closely, there appears to be a little paint off the front edge of the hood and I think there is perhaps some wax around the side marker light. So an owner might have added the sport mirrors on that car, too far forward and without inside remote cable. BUT--the brown 73 Grande on page 217 is not an owner car. That is a Ford file photo. They used that same image on postcards, etc, back in 1973. After producing that body style since 1971, with the mirrors normally farther back, what explains a car like that one, a full two years later, with the mirrors far forward? It's not just the camera angle, either.

Kit, good point about the chrome strip at the rear of the hood and front fenders of the 71 Grande. If you look carefully at the pre-production cars of 71, in the Recognition Guide, ALL models seem to have that, except maybe the Boss 351 prototype. Even the pre-production 71 Mach 1 on page 185 has it. Additionally, the bronze 72 base Hardtop on page 203 also has it! Think maybe for that photo, Ford stuck a 1972 plate on one of their pre-production 1971 cars?

The 71 base Hardtops and base Sportsroofs both came standard with the camera case textured applique between the tailights, the chrome strips with it, and the chrome pin letters for the trunk lid. It is stated in the Illustrated Facts and Specifications Manual, the Salesman's info book, etc. And there are photos. The tape stripe on the trunk lid of the Sportroof must have been an option. It may also have been an option to delete the applique and use body color paint between the tailights. I have seen quite a number of base 71 Sportsroofs with the pin letters and tailight panel applique. In fact, the only ones I have happened to see with the tape stripe are a few photos in books.

On a related note, that black camera case texture applique on my 73 Hardtop was getting kind of hazy. I came up with the idea of using an indelible ink Redi-Mark marker to go over the whole thing. In normal daylight, it made it look shiny black and like new again. At night, with someone's headlights shining on it, the iridescence of the ink was visible. Gave it an interesting, subtle, neon purple glow!

Kit, for some reason Ford DID build a few regular production cars in oddball color combos. In 1971, there were 4 Mustangs painted Bright Yellow that had Vermilion interiors: 1 Grande, 1 Mach with interior decor option, 1 Convertible with standard vinyl buckets, and 1 Convertible with knitted vinyl buckets.

In 1972, there was 1 base Hardtop in Medium Bright Yellow, with Vermilion standard vinyl bucket interior.

Those are all found in the book 'Mustang, By The Numbers' by Kevin Marti, from the 1967 through 1973 Ford database. A lot of oddballs to be found in that book. VERY interesting!

In 1971, there was 1 Grabber Blue fastback, either base or Mach, that had a Vermilion Mach decor interior! Just imagine that color combo!

Could someone post a photo of the 'dent' that you are referring to? Because the ones I have seen are irregular in shape, not all the same, and don't look like they have any function at all. I'm just wondering if we are truly talking about the same thing or not.

Hey--what about that cowl vent plug situation? No one commented about that.

As I say, my 73 Hardtop was a 302 and had the decal on the driver's side valve cover. In fact, I have seen a heck of a lot of 71-73 cars over the years, and it has only been very recently that I have seen a few with the decal up on top of the passenger side fire wall. It was a new one on me! I wonder the reason, and what the percentages were of how many cars got them in which place? We may never know, I guess.

David

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-24-2002 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I have the 'salespersons sourceguides' for 71's, 2's and 3's from Ford here, and the bright molding at the trailing edge of the hood was actually standard on all models except Mach 1 & BOSS 351. I previously stated that it was only on Grandes.
That piece was no longer used for any model starting in 72.
As far as some of the argent grilles being darker or lighter than others? Absolutely! I've seen it myself on sveral occasions. I'm not sure if it is due to manufacturing differences or aging. I have a 72 convertible that was bought new by my sister, and there are several pix we have of it when it was new. The grille looks to be a fairly light shade of 'argent'. This car still has the original grille, but it looks to be much darker than in the photos. Under some lighting conditions, almost black! Of course, the old photos could be faded, but the other colors still look pretty 'true'. Anyway, just a theory.
Acording to the guide-'Black lower back panel applique, molding.'-definately NOT standard on sportsroofs in 71. This model came standard with the 'Rear tape stripe-cutout Mustang letters.'
That was the only model to use this stripe, and only 71's. Personally, I think that is about the ugliest stripe on any Mustang I've ever seen. Looks better with nothing.
Yellow with a red interior does not show up as an availible choice for any 71-73, but that of course doesn't mean some weren't made that way.Obviously.
Ford is famous for taking existing photos of prototypes and airbrushing them to appear to be a different year model. This could be the case with the 73 Grande photo with the mierrors in the wrong place.They may have just airbrushed the grille/bumper and '73' plates on a 71 proto-type photo. There is a photo of a yellow with red interior 72 BOSS 351 prototype, and it is clearly the same photo as the 71 proto-type with the plates airbrushed to read '1972'.
Heres some info that is sure to open a can of worms: It is my contention that Ford made the front fenders of 71-72 Mustangs with a mistake in them. Specifically, the location of the marker light openings. If you carefully measure the distance from the bottom of the hole to the bottom edge of the fender(where the valance attaches), you will clearly see that one side is about 3/8" different than the other side. I rediscover this every time I try to put some side stripes on 71 or 72. Whenever I have a chance, I always check the other ones I see, and without fail, they are all the same.
Go check yours and let me know what you find!

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-24-2002 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
....and I'm not sure what you are reffering to about the cowl vent plug. More info needed.

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-24-2002 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know about the accuracy of that salesperson's guide. Maybe some of the info was assembled and included before the cars actually went into production??? Because I have yet to see a 71 production car of any style with those chrome moldings at the back of the hood and fenders. They do show up in the Recognition Guide on those pre-production cars, but I haven't happened to see them out in the real world.

BUT-- I have seen 71 base Sportsroof cars with pin letters on the trunk and the black tailight panel. MANY of them. That WAS the standard treatment. The last one I saw was Maroon with black standard bucket interior. I have never happened to see one in the real world with that tape stripe. Only in books and that seems to be the same pictures of a pre-production car.

Maybe the tape stripe was very early production for a while? Maybe Ford couldn't decide immediately what they wanted to do? I have seen a few with the pin letters, but body color paint on the tailight panel. But I think the majority of 71 base Sportsroofs came with the pin letters and the black tailight panel.

Have you seen the July, 2001 issue of Mustang Monthly? It has a great 71 Hardtop that was one of only 25 1971 hardtops with the 351CJ and C6. It also has a unique looking dealer installed half vinyl top. And I also noticed that there are no pin letters on the trunk lid. No name on the back end at all. Wonder if it might have come from the factory that way?

Were original trunk lids and front fenders pre-drilled for emblems, or were the holes made right at the time the emblems were installed? My 73 Hardtop had no emblems on the front fenders when I got it from the original owner, and I couldn't find any evidence that the fenders were not original or that holes had been filled in.

David

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-24-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fordnmerc:

Does anyone on the planet know why so many 72-79 Ford and Mercury cars came from the factory with one or both cowl vent plugs missing? And if only one was missing, it was almost always the driver's side. That was the case with my Mustang and with Torinos, Rancheros, LTD IIs, etc. It is weird!!


Those are the two small black rubber plugs that go on top of the fire wall to either side of the cowl vent screens. A lot of people don't even notice them. If one or both are missing, they don't even know that something was supposed to go in the hole. Some unscrupulous people these days who DO know, are actually stealing them! Because they are rather hard to come by quite often.

Some people who know about them don't pay any attention either way, but I figure that if they were intended to be there, I want them. To keep water and debris from getting down in there, etc. And it looks better with the plugs in place, rather than empty holes.

It's one of the first things I look for, whenever I look at engine compartment pics of 72-79 Fords. Because there are so many that are missing one or both. As I say, it is weird and I just wonder what the deal was with that. It was not isolated to just one assembly plant, either.

David

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-24-2002 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My experience is just the opposite of yours. I have seen plenty of 71 sportsroofs with the 'MUSTANG' trunk stripe, but I have also seen some with the rear applique panel.
I have several different sources here and they all state that the 'bare' rear with the stripe was standard in 71 for sportsroofs. The rear applique/moldings and 'mustang' block letters were an option for 71 sportsroofs.
In 72, all sportsroofs came with the applique and 'Mustang' script on the right hand side of the trunk.
I have seen once a car that I think was painted the way you describe. It was a light blue sportsroof, and the back panel as well as the lower bodysides were painted argent-BOSS 351 style. No rear applique or other mach 1 style trim though.
I have seen a few 71's with the 1-year only hood moldings. Usually a grande or convertible. the corner pieces on the fenders have never lined up well on any that I've seen. I always suspected that was why they dropped the item.
I would assume that the fenders were not all pre-drilled because 71-72 Machs' as well as the Boss 351 did not recieve any fender emblems. So they must have made them both ways on the assembly line. The service replacement part was probably the undrilled piece, to be drilled as necessary by the bodyshop working the car.
The white hardtop with the goofy vinyl roof is certainly rare, but in my opinion it doesn't really count for much as an important item. Any dealer can do anything they want to any of thier inventory, but that does not mean that it came from Ford that way. To me, 'original' means made on the assembly line, and 'factory' means added to this particular car to be just like an authentic assembly line car. Added by the dealer means nothing to me. Just my own opinion though.
I had the same discussion with 'Fordnmerc' about a 'Starsky & Hutch' Torino. He told me about a couple of rare cars, specially ordered red Montegos(The color was not RPO at the time), and when the dealer got them, he painted a white stripe on them. To me, that does not make them an official factory produced 'Starsky & Hutch' Torino.
My torino, on the other hand, is one of 1,000 'Starsky & Hutch' Torino's produceed by Ford at the Chicago plant for a month during 76. They were all made at one time, painted white first, masked off, and THEN painted red.Thats the easiest way to tell if its a fake.The only other evidence of the authenticity is the 'PS 122' that shows up on the body-buck tag and the build sheets. Other than the color combo, the cars are pure 100% stock family-style, grocery-gettin' Gran Torinos. No engine or suspension modifications. They even came with 14x6" painted magnum 500's! That wheel was way too small for that car, considering the one on TV had 15x8's in front and 15x10's in the rear!

[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-24-2002).]

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-24-2002 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, the tape stripe is part# D1ZZ-6320000-H. That is the argent stripe. It is sitting in its Ford box next to my keyboard The stripes are labeled per Ford custom, each piece has an individual part #, etc. So it does exist, and did come as standard equipment on the sportsroof until at least Jan of 71. My first fastback was built 1/71, and when doing the bodywork, I found remnants of the tape stripe on the trunklid, and NO holes for a rear applique (yes it was the original sheetmetal).

My understanding of the rear applique was that it was optional in 71, I think part of an exterior decor package, possibly along with the rocker moldings.

The mirror issue is another thing. If they were any further forward, the front hole would be outside the door skin, which would not be a good situation concerning rust and water entry. I have NEVER seen a 71-3 car with sport mirrors that were factory installed, in any place but the "rearward" location we have been discussing. Any other location is just a retrofit. That is odd too, because the sport mirror, I believe, will bolt on in place of the std mirror.

One thing that we MUST take into account here is the VAST amount of these cars that were involved in accidents, as well as being modified by the owner. Tape stripes, emblems, clips, trim, rear panels, etc may very well have been discarded, removed or just plain disregarded after a repair and paint job. Therefore, unless you can undeniably verify the complete originality of the example car in question, you must question the "correctness" of the current trim scheme. The tape stripe was probably hard to get, and the pin letters were easier to find, or maybe preferred by the owner.

The truth is buried beneath the sands of time, so who knows what might have taken place.

Also, if the plant ran out of sportsroof tape stripes, I'm sure the assembly line workers were instructed to install the pin letters as a substitute, so anything is possible. Remember, consistency in trim appearance was not as important to Ford as a smooth flowing production line......

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-24-2002 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will have to agree with Hemikiller on just about all points.
Something else I find interesting is that 'Vermillion'(red) was an RPO interior-color option in 71& 72, but 'Avacado'(green) was not availible.
Starting in 73,'Avacado' was a new interior-color choice, but 'Vermillion' was no longer offered.
I haven't seen but a few Avacado equipped 'Stangs, but I have seen PLENTY of Vermillion-interior equipped 73 Mustangs. Of course, they are probably not original interiors.
I'll bet a lot of owners put the red interior in thinking that all colors were availible for all 71-73's. Not that it's a big deal, just interesting.
Something else I see a lot, and I usually just bite a hole in my tongue when they tell me it's original. When the rear spoiler is mounted backwards! I see it all the time! To me it's totally obvious, but I guess some just can't see the difference.

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-24-2002 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
concerning Avocado as an interior color....

[This message has been edited by Hemikiller (edited 12-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Hemikiller (edited 12-24-2002).]

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-24-2002 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many years ago, a girl I knew had a 73 sportsroof with an avacado Mach 1 interior, and that car looked surprisingly good!

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-24-2002 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and concerning the dent in the inner wheelhouse....

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-25-2002 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, thats the bugger. That is definately there for tire clearance

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-25-2002 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay guys, maybe the tape stripe came first on the back of the base Sportsroof cars in 71 and the pin letters and applique were an option and then became standard at mid year or slightly after? That might explain why some of the literature has the stripe listed as standard and some has the pin letters and applique listed as standard.

Kit, I remember our discussion about the 2 red Montegos that the two dealers added the white stripe onto, to make them look like the Starsky and Hutch Torinos. I guess the point I was trying to make there, and in regard to the 71 Mustang Hardtop with the dealer installed vinyl roof (it was actually a light green car, not white), is that if those types of things can be documented as having been done before the first owner took delivery of the car, then they should be more desireable than cars that have been altered years later by owners who are trying to achieve a unique look. Yes, it wasn't factory, but if it was something that was done by a very few dealers on a very few cars, and can be documented as such, then those vehicles should have at least a little bit of added value. That's just my own opinion, of course. I'm in no way saying that everyone has to agree.

I wish I could take a look, in person, at some of the cars with the mirrors farther forward, to see just exactly what was done. Hemi--good point about them being outside the door skin that way. Both sport mirrors would have to be manually adjusted from outside the car with them mounted in that forward location on 71-73, I would think.

Thanks also for posting that trunk photo. From the description you guys gave, I was pretty sure what that would look like. My car did not have that feature at all. The dent in mine and in the others I have seen is entirely different. It starts about at the top of where the one in the photo is and goes horizontally to the right, across the face of the wheelwell. It is irregularly shaped and I am convinced that it was a case of Ford having some pieces that were damaged somehow, but to keep from slowing production, they installed them anyway. I am kicking myself in the a$$ for not taking a picture of the one in my car before I swapped it, and also for not saving the photos of the other cars that I have seen it in on eBay over the past few months. You can bet that I will be keeping a close eye on eBay from now on, to see if I spot any others.

David

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-25-2002 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kit, I think the factory DID install a lot of those rear spoilers in the backwards position. I think I remember reading that even Larry Shinoda was bitching about it at the time.

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-25-2002 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've seen a lot of 71-73's with rear factory installed spoilers, but I've never seen one put on from the factory backwards. That doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

About the 'Starsky' Montegos. My contention is that a dealer-modified car has absolutely nothing to do with anything that Ford consisdered availible or not on a car. It is no different than any subsequent owner modifying the car.
The dealers, of course are not a 'part' of Ford-they are just customers like you and me. They buy a lot more at once, and for resale.
I would say that the special-ordered red paint from the factory might add some extra value to the cars, but the dealer added stripe would add nothing. In fact, it would probably detract from the value, as it changes the 'originality' of a rare factory-produced car.
A case in point is the 'Starsky' cars. Before Ford actually made the 1,000 'S&H LE's', they sent diagrams to all thier dealers with info on how to paint the 'Starsky' stripe on a Torino. These diagrams included paint color codes and detailed measurements for the stripe. Unfortunately, the Ford-supplied diagram is very inaccurate, if you consider the TV car as the benchmark.
A car that was painted by the dealer, even if using Fords reference material, is still not a factory-produced car.
The 1,000 Factory-made 'S&H LE's' are worth far more to a collector than a Torino that has been painted with the stripe by the dealer, even if it is the original paint.
As a further example, suppose a 71 351-4V Mach 1 came from Ford with the 'NASA' hood(which was standard), but not the optional ram-air. If the selling dealer added the hood pins, the correct tu-tone paint and decals, and every single piece of ram-air equipment to the car, would that be considered a factory ram-air car? Personally I don't consider that to be 'factory original', even though it is EXACTLY as Ford would have built it, if only ordered that way. It is no different than someone doing the same mods 20 years later.
Now I feel I must also say that we are beating a very dead horse with this factory vs. dealer thing. Funny thing is, I don't have a prefernce for factory or not, I just prefer mine to be as the way that the factory would have made them if they were ordered that way.
What bugs me is when someone with a 69 Mach 1 says this car is 'Factory Original', but it has 1970 upholstery in it. When someone is unaware or naive, that don't bother me. Only when you know that they are full of beans, and persist with the 'All Original'. story.
Here is a perfect example: I won't use his name, but there is a gentleman in Tampa with a Yellow 72 Mach 1, 351-HO. This car has been immaculately restored. I mean this car is absolutely beautiful! It was featured in 'Mustang Monthly', so you may be familiar with it.
At a car show in August of this year, I met him there and we chatted about our cars, and he and his wife seem like perfectly ordinary, nice folk.(for Mustangers, anyway).
As he was looking over my car, he made comments about the repro parts that were on it. "See, this isn't just like the original", or "Your battery hold down bolts don't have the correct phosphate coating on them." ( these are his actual quotes).
He is totally correct, those and many, many things on my car are not 'correct', and I have used plenty of repro parts when I felt the price of an NOS was too high. He stated that he used nothing but 100% FORD parts on his car, and it looked it! Belts, hoses,lug nuts, glass,weatherstripping...you name it! Kudo's to him, it looks fantastic! His wife also told me he spent 6 years and $30,000+ restoring it. Since it has been restored, it has been driven only a couple-few thousand miles, and it gets trailered to EVERY EVENT. No street driving if at all possible!
My 71 Mach was $5,500 new(dads car), I got it for $1,500 in 76 with 18,000 miles on it, and from then 'till now, I have put over 300,000 miles on it.
I 'restored' it myself(on a self-imposed budget),having never done a restoration before. I took my time, read a LOT of books and articles, went to a LOT of shows and took notes on 'factory' cars, and asked everybody I could find for info and help.
Took me about three years and around $8,000. I ended up with a car that is faster and more fun to drive than original, runs on pump gas, looks better than ever, and is able to pass for 'original' to all but the real expert. I have no problem taking this car 2-300 miles for a show in any weather. I just try not to drive in inclement weather if at all possible. If not..Oh well, I'll just wash it!
Anyway, during the day at that show, as 'yellow Mach' was telling all the admirers about why he did not consider using anything but NOS parts on his car, he would bring them over to mine and show them why he wouldn't use repros. About half the time, he confused an original part on mine as a repro.
After about the umpteenth time he wandered over to my 'area' someone, I went to his car and asked about the outside door handles, which were obviously repro. The repros handle does not sit as flush in the 'cup' as an original. Of course he claims NOS. His weatherstripping is totally repro. Original has a 'trapezoidal' cross section, and the repro has a 'square' cross section. His is square. Thats only after looking at his car for a minute or two. What really PO'd the guy off was that I won first place AND judges choice that day, and he won nothing! As I was packing up, I could hear him grumbling to his wife about 'Judges that don't know anything, etc..." Fact of the matter is, a shiny bright red car with black stripes and gleaming chrome is very popular with observers, and very hard to beat. I'm sure all of you with a red car out there know what I'm talking about.
My point is this: I know my cars are not perfect or factory, but I don't represent them that way. And I don't denigrate other owner's choices on thier own vehicles. Every one has thier own taste. But I do get pissed when someone tells me MY car has a 'flaw' because it doesn't meet up with his standards, and in the same breath represents his car as near-perfect.(or in this guys case-perfect!). If someones car IS perfect, I am always impressed. If someones car is far from perfect, I am still impressed. At least they are going to the trouble to have a 'classic car' and put up with everything that entails. That gives them exclusive membership in 'the club'.
The observers that drive to the show in thier only car, a 97 Malibu, and tell me whats 'wrong' with my car, based on their recollections of the 71 Mach 1 thier sister owned 20+ years ago are the types that really get under my skin.
Steve, I most definately do not have anything derogatory to say about your hardtop. It's a 'Sprint', fer Chrisakes! How many of those were made? 500? That's not many! I think your car is cool! I just don't happen to like the look of a standard, plain-jane stripper 71-73 coupe.
I know a lot of you guys (and gals) here don't much care for GM or MOPAR products, what with the 'Craparo' and 'Fireturd' remarks that are pretty common here. That's OK. I do like some. I have a Z-28, a Trans-Am, an AMX, and a Cutlass Supreme. And I like all of them too. But FORDS are my first and favorite choice. But I like any car that is well cared for by thier owner.
I'm sorry I've been venting here, but once I started thinkin' about 'Yellow Mach', I got really PO'd.

[This message has been edited by cobravenom71 (edited 12-25-2002).]

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-26-2002 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
Steve, I most definately do not have anything derogatory to say about your hardtop. It's a 'Sprint', fer Chrisakes! How many of those were made? 500? That's not many! I think your car is cool! I just don't happen to like the look of a standard, plain-jane stripper 71-73 coupe.

There were 6247 hardtop, 3086 sportsroof, and 50 convertible Sprints built.

My Sprint also has that depression on the right rear wheelhouse area and the engine spec decal on the cowl, if that helps anyone.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-26-2002 10:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
500? 9,000? still not a whole lot!

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posted 12-27-2002 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Especially compared to the 27,675 Mach 1s in '72.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Hemikiller
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posted 12-27-2002 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We had a '72 sprint coupe here in town when I was in high school. Was the "A" package with the 14x7 steelies with trim rings and hub caps, a flat hood, "H" code, automatic. It sat for a couple years next to a motel, then disappeared when I was in college. A friend made a couple attempts to buy it, but never could get ahold of the owner. Only one I've ever seen up here, even at shows.

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-27-2002 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This month makes 25 years I've owned mine. I've only have seen two others on the road, and I've never seen one at a show.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-27-2002 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
This month makes 25 years I've owned mine. I've only have seen two others on the road, and I've never seen one at a show.



Steve, check this one out. For sale right now, in Aurora, CO. Has 39,200 original miles!:

http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com/caddetail.htm?/ad-cache/10/1/6/39402316.htm

David

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-27-2002 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know why that link is not working. I was careful to type it exactly. The car is on Trader Online, anyway. It's another 72 Sprint Hardtop. Looks great.

David

[This message has been edited by fordnmerc (edited 12-27-2002).]

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-27-2002 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found it. Looks interesting, thanks Dave!

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-27-2002 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kit, good point about the special red paint on the Montegos making them likely worth more WITHOUT the dealer added white stripe.

Personally, I would just rather have one that was done by a dealer, back when the cars were new, than something done by an owner fairly recently. Individual taste, I guess. Not saying everyone should feel that way.

'Yellow Mach' sounds like kind of a messed up guy. Sorta lost it somewhere along the way, didn't he?

I had my 73 at a show in August of 97. Guy comes along with a rather beat 73 white Grande. Starts looking over my white hardtop, to gain info on originality, because my car had 26k original miles on it.

He gets to the door handles and he says that my car is missing the 'rectangular inserts'. I wondered what in the world he was talking about. So I go over and check out his car. Some previous owner had put some rectangular 'Playboy' decals on the door handles, and this guy thought they were original! I could NOT convince him otherwise!!

He had been doing a few things to the car---not helping it any. Repainted the blue in the engine compartment, but it was MUCH too light. It was a lot lighter even than Ford 3B! The brace for the shock towers was missing on his car. But, I didn't bother pointing those things out....what's the use?

Some people....

By the way, congratulations on racking up over 300,000 miles! I would say that not too many people enjoy that much time and mileage in any classic Mustang. Not that the cars are not durable, but just the fact that most owners sell them long before they put on that much mileage.

You've got true dedication there.

David

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posted 12-27-2002 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
'Yellow Mach' sounds like the messed up type of person you meet every once in a while. When I meet people like that I just ignore them. Some people always think everything they have is better than yours, everything they do is better, their kids are smarter, their wives are better looking, their breathe is mintyier than yours...

They probably spent lots of time locked in a closet as a kid...

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cobravenom71
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posted 12-27-2002 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that I re-read my poat about 'Yellow Mach 1' from a couple days ago, I can see I was a little too vindictive. Maybe the stress from spending all that moola on Christmas crap, and watching the kids play with the boxes.
Don't get me wrong: His car is f***in gorgeous! He just thinks his is the absolute benchmark, and everything else is crap.
The 300,000 miles on my 71 didn't happen because I took real good care of it. No, I'm embarrassed to say that I basically drove the snot out of it. Just like most teens with thier first car. Mine just happened to have a 429 CJ in it, so most of the boo-boos that accumulated over the years happened at a much higher speed!
Plus, like any dumba$$ teenager, I did a lot of incredibly stupid stuff in it.
I was once trying to show off to a bunch of dudes in a clapped-out looking Charger who had just parked next to me at a fast-food joint. As I was just leaving, I decided to give them a little 'smoke-show.' My plan was to burn 'em in reverse outa' the space, and spin around 'Rockford-style' and leave 'em with a cloud of rememberance.
So, I punched it in reverse. Somehow I didn't see that big, gigantic telephone pole in the parking lot about 15 feet directly behind my car, and I hit it square with the back end of the car, with my foot firmly planted on the floor. It caved in the back off the car so badly, that the pole was almost touching the leading edge of the rear window molding. The Charger guys got a good laugh out of that one. It took me about 6 months to fix that, but I did it.
The car has been stolen twice, and fortunately I recovered it.
It has been painted 5 times. Originally red, I changed it to Grabber blue after the first wreck, then bright yellow after it was recovered the first time it was stolen. It was smashed up in the front end when recovered. When that paint job gave up finally, I painted it white, which was really tough. Took a LOT of paint to cover the yellow. After being stolen, wrecked and recovered again, I painted it gold and drove it for about 85,000 miles like that. When I decided to 'restore' it in the late 80's, I figured it had to go back to red. I was determined to get all the old paint off the car, and do it right so I would never have to paint it again, since I wasn't going to be driving it ona daily basis anymore. What a chore! Stripping all the old paint off was a big pain in the a$$! That car had so much paint on it, I probably could've picked up a couple of tenths in the quarter!
Anyway, I painted it back to red, and really tried to do as quality a job as I could. The car has been mangled so many times, that it could never be perfect, but the finished project came out much, much better than I ever imagined it would. It is frequently mistaken for a low-mileage original now.
As a side note, with each paint job I always redid the tutone paint and 'Mach 1' decals and stripes just as the factory would have done it. Over the years, a lot of my neighbors and employees thought I had a never-ending succesion of identical Mustangs, just in different colors!
My car is far from perfect, but it drives and looks excellent (to me anyway!). On-line 'Blue book' values put it at around the mid-thirties, and I figure mine , with its mileage and history has to be worth at least half that. The car cost $5,500 new, and over the years I have spent as little as possible, and the last restoration cost about $8,000. So I figure about $15,000 total cost for a classic muscle car that I drove 300,000+ miles in, and still get to enjoy it 100%!(of course, I'll never sell it since my dad bought it new)

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-27-2002 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
I found it. Looks interesting, thanks Dave!


Steve, I just checked eBay, and there are 2 Sprints on auction right now:

Hardtop: 1875723921

Fastback: 1875416830

I have a book called Convertibles: America's Dazzling Drop-Tops. It covers all different makes and models of cars. Lots of color photos. On page 72 is a photo of one of the 50 1972 Sprint Convertibles!

Also worth mentioning: The May, 1972 issue of Hot Rod magazine has a double-page ad in the center for the 1972 Ford Sprint cars. Pinto, Maverick, and a Mustang fastback. It is my favorite Ford ad of all time. It is interesting to notice the differences in the seats of the 3 cars, too, and how the tri-color scheme was done for each.


David

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fordnmerc
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posted 12-27-2002 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fordnmerc   Click Here to Email fordnmerc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is an amazing story, Kit! Not many people get to enjoy a 429 Mach for that length of time and in that many colors!! You should post photos of how the car looked each time.

Have you seen the movie Total Recall? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to change colors on a car as easily as that girl changed her fingernail colors?

David

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-27-2002 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very cool.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 12-27-2002 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hemikiller:
We had a '72 sprint coupe here in town when I was in high school. Was the "A" package with the 14x7 steelies with trim rings and hub caps,

I meant to mention my 'A' package Sprint had 14x6 wheels and trim rings when I got it. I had to get 14x7 rims and trim rings from a wrecked Mach.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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