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Author Topic:   cleveland vs. windsor
kewljay223
Gearhead

Posts: 223
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-26-2002 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kewljay223   Click Here to Email kewljay223     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is one of these engine is better than the other?? or does it jsut depend on the opinion of the person and/or what performance parts are on it. just wondering because i hear people telling me that my cleveland is better than the windsor but others say i should get a windsor. any opinions??

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 1746
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-26-2002 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is an old chestnut A search of the archives should pull up quite a bit. In summary ...
351C is kick *** right out of the box, but little in the way of aftermarket support. Great breathing, but a not-so-great oiling setup.
351W has so much aftermarket stuff that you can give any 351C a run for its money and more.

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Keahi73
Gearhead

Posts: 432
From: San Carlos, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 11-26-2002 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keahi73   Click Here to Email Keahi73     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with the lack of add on goodies out there for the 351c. It's a matter of opinion, and what you are willing to deal with. ease of getting parts is something to think about. Then again you just may get a deal you can't pass up for your "2nd" choice engine.

For the record...I absolutely LOVE the 351c in my Panel! And its "only" a 2bbl!

I'm sure others will pipe in here!

------------------
68 Mustang Fastback GT-J code
55 Ford F100- Panel-Volare IFS, 351C
2 unmentionable brand vehicles ;)
Pictures of the GT project!
Pictures of the panel project!-look under "His and Hers"

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-26-2002 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The "W" has the best short block
The "C" has the best heads,

Before the aftermarket "W" heads, many merged the two engines into "Clevors" "W" short block topped with "C" heads. Nowadays with the awesome aftermarket heads available for the Windsors it isn't necessary to build a Clevor.
A Windsor with good aftermarket heads will last longer and run with a built Cleveland.

SteveW

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kewljay223
Gearhead

Posts: 223
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-27-2002 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kewljay223   Click Here to Email kewljay223     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my "C" was stack with a two barrel but i just put a 4 barrel on it. and to help the oil cooling, i used that extra oil galley (next to the oil filter) and i got an oil cooling system with dual oil filters. with some other parts that i have and will be using, i think i will be able to give a windsor a run for its money.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4736
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-27-2002 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It depends on what you want to do with it. A W with aftermarket heads will make more power in streetable trim than a comparable 2v cleveland. But, take the same W and make a full blown race motor, and give the C 4v heads and make it a race motor, and it's a toss up. The aftermarket support is a lot stronger for windsors, but clevelands respond real well with basic bolt ons and old fashioned hot rodding techniques. (My race cleveland is proof of that)

ps, if you ran that line to the back of the block from the front, in my opinion, it's a waste of time.

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BlueMule
Gearhead

Posts: 946
From: Kent Island, MD USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-27-2002 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueMule   Click Here to Email BlueMule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
ps, if you ran that line to the back of the block from the front, in my opinion, it's a waste of time.

you mean it doesn't work?

------------------
-Paul

70 Mach1
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000

'life's tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.'

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-27-2002 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BlueMule:
you mean it doesn't work?


The bypass line hasn't been proven to do much except cost money for fittings.
A high volume pump, restrictors and a high capacity pan eliminates any oiling concerns for most any street strip/bracket race motor.
BTW the Aftermarket support is just fine for a cleveland. Unfortunately the best intakes in curent production are made in Australia and are expensive.
If you can get a 4V quench headed cleveland cheaply, then run a Cleveland. If you can't get a deal, then run a 351W with aftermarket heads.
You have to get a "race" oriented windsor head to match the flow of a stock 4V cleveland head. This is the sole reason to run a cleveland IMHO.

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BlueMule
Gearhead

Posts: 946
From: Kent Island, MD USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-27-2002 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueMule   Click Here to Email BlueMule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mpcoluv:
The bypass line hasn't been proven to do much except cost money for fittings.
A high volume pump, restrictors and a high capacity pan eliminates any oiling concerns for most any street strip/bracket race motor.

nuff said, I'm glad I didn't waste the time. Thanks

------------------
-Paul

70 Mach1
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000

'life's tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.'

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Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 301
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-27-2002 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson   Click Here to Email Hans olsson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cleveland rocks.

------------------

  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110 mph
  • F/SA 11.76-111 mph

[This message has been edited by Hans olsson (edited 11-27-2002).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 11-27-2002 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We should as Drew Cary?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 301
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-27-2002 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson   Click Here to Email Hans olsson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That was a funny guy.
The tune "Cleveland Rocks" from the Drew Carey show was performed by Ian Hunter,
singer from Mott The Hoople.

  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110 mph
  • F/SA 11.76-111 mph

[This message has been edited by Hans olsson (edited 11-27-2002).]

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 378
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-27-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mpcoluv:

If you can get a 4V quench headed cleveland cheaply, then run a Cleveland. If you can't get a deal, then run a 351W with aftermarket heads.
You have to get a "race" oriented windsor head to match the flow of a stock 4V cleveland head. This is the sole reason to run a cleveland IMHO.


A Windsor does need aftermarket heads to match a Cleveland. I don't consider Victor Jr's full race head though.

BTW C heads weigh 130#s a pr, while V's weigh 44#s a pr.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 11-27-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was????

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 301
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-27-2002 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson   Click Here to Email Hans olsson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am sure he is alive and well.
Just a careless use of the word was.

------------------

  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110 mph
  • F/SA 11.76-111 mph

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 1746
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-27-2002 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hans, are you serious??? A friend of mine was the keyboardist in Mott the Hoople, and thought Ian Hunter had dropped off the face of the planet. I guess he's made a bomb off recording Cleveland Rocks, but what an end to a great (well, sometimes great!) career!

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kewljay223
Gearhead

Posts: 223
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-27-2002 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kewljay223   Click Here to Email kewljay223     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so there is no point in that extra line?? then why was it put there??

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Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 301
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-27-2002 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson   Click Here to Email Hans olsson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
kewljay223,our 351C turns 7400rpm in the
lights. Mods to the oiling system is
melling high volume oil pump,moroso
restrictors,and enlarged passages
to and from the pump.
Fastback68, i have a Cd named "Ian Hunter-
You?re never alone with a Schizophrenic".
Number three is Cleveland Rocks.
Very

------------------

  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110 mph
  • F/SA 11.76-111 mph

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 1746
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-27-2002 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Duh, you're right Hans! I was totally confused. That's a 1979 album - just checked. I thought you were saying Hunter had just recorded Cleveland Rocks for the series, but it turns out it's been redone by some group called President Of The United States Of America.

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