I've put about 200 or so miles on the rebuild, and had some time to check a few things. The engine was idling rough, but running okay--just okay--at speed. It sounded like I had an exhaust leak, but all the header bolts are tight. Sooooo, I retorqued the manifold bolts for my Weiand Action-Plus. They seemed quite loose. I was able to turn all of them easily at 14 ft/pounds, then torqued them to 16 ft/pounds. I replaced the petrified PCV grommet on the valve cover and now I have a good, tight seal on the PCV valve. I replaced the carb base gaskets since it appeared I had some leaking. While the carb was off, I checked the power valve and found the power valve did not have a gasket on it. (Friends shouldn't let friends drink and rebuild carbs).

I DO NOT have a secondary check ball installed. The rebuild kits I have inspected at the local parts stores don't come with a ball small enough to fit. In fact, they don't indicate a ball is needed in the parts blow-up, which is why there isn't one.

I put everything back together, and now the engine won't idle. When I start it up, she runs at a fairly high rpm for a few seconds, then stumbles and dies. Fanning the gas pedal will keep her running, but she's nowhere near driveable.

I'm postulating I had a vacuum leak at the manifold, and now the carb/engine is behaving completely differently, but the idle problem sounds like a float level issue. I didn't mess with the floats. Could I now be making enough vacuum that the secondaries are effected due to the lack of the check ball?

The PCV system was not sealing before, but the engine won't idle either with the valve removed from the valve cover. I'm using the stock FORD riser plate with the PCV fitting. Does the open cavitied/open side of the riser plate go up towards the carb, or down towards the manifold? (I know it sounds stupid, but I'm shooting in the dark).
Since the Weiand manifold doesn't have all the cavities at the carb opening the FORD manifold did, it seems like I'd be better off with a phenolic riser plate and a brass fitting for the hose. Could I just use one of the available vacuum holes in a manifold runner to hook up the PCV hose and get rid of the riser altogether?

The Shop Manual states the secondary throttle plate setting should be 3/4 turns after the screw contacts the lever. Is that a good number?

Should the hot engine idle speed adjusting screw be preloaded at all after it touches the throttle shaft lever BEFORE trying to adjust the idle mixture screws?

Is there anything else I can use for the secondary check ball? Unfortunately, the standard BB size is the size of the accelerator check ball, but they're too big to use as the secondary check ball.

HELP!!!!!!! My car is stuck in my friends garage and my wife is PISSED!!!!!!!!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I'm typing to you from the local public library--my friend's computer is down for the count.

I checked the floats at 29/64s yesterday, both primary and secondary. I can't tell if there's fuel trickling. Should I readjust the float level first, and then get back to you?

Are you talking wet float height or fuel height?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

As I said, the car was running before I did all this, so I don't think I swapped out the boosters.

I believe I installed the booster gaskets correctly.

I don't want to attempt starting her yet with the top off. When she does light up, she's really screaming, probably 2000 or more rpms.

Is 11/16 the fuel height or the wet float height?

Thanks much,

Sooooo, my wet float height is off by almost a 1/4 of an inch. I'll fix that first, then maybe I can drive over here in the 'Stang.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Thanks much for your help. I can get the car to run now, but the idle is still off--she won't idle by herself, but now she'll run continuously at a higher rpm. The float height was obviously an issue.

However, the car ran and idled, although not perfectly, before I did the few items I mentioned. Now she still won't idle. What could retorquing the intake, adding the power valve gasket, installing a new PCV grommet and new carb base gaskets have done?

I'm hoping I fixed a larger problem and now simply have to go back through the normal tuning steps.

Any advice on the other questions I asked?

Thanks much,

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

When I lightly step on the gas while she's parked, she hesitates, then accelerates and stays at a higher rpm for a few seconds even after I let off the gas, then slowly reduces her rpm back to idle. It doesn't appear the accelerator pump nozzles do anything but dribble unless you ready stomp on it. I didn't have that problem before I made the changes I outlined in the original post.

The wet float height is somewhere greater than 42/64 but less than 47/64. I've got the accelerator pump arm on the interior hole and #3 hole. She's got #53 and #59 jets, timing is at 10 degrees, the idle adjustment screws are 3 turns out. She kept getting easier to manage as the idle screws came out. I may try another half a turn, but I'm not sure how far out I can go. The primary venturi booster has a D and a small 4 on it. The secondary has an F and a small 4. The ends of the interior tubes on both the boosters are squeezed together into a small hole, like a nipple.

I haven't found any Fel-Pro carb base geaskets yet, so I installed another fresh gasket from the rebuild kit. It has four holes for the barrels, but no other special features.

I'll check the fuel filter again, but it seemed fine during the rebuild.

I failed to mention in my last post that I have the idle speed adjustment screw bottomed out against the spring AND the idle mixture screws at 3 and-a-half turns out. That can't be right, can it?

JOHN

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I suppose the one I took out could be clogged somehow. I've got some fine wire to run through it to see if it's obstructed. I'll also try switching them around, and I'll check the pump spring, and I'll check the throttle shaft, and I'll check my wallet...

Thanks,

You were right, again. The accelerator pump spring was in backwards. Unfortunately, that's the way it's pictured in the diagram included with the rebuild kit.

Soooooo, I turned the spring around and put everything back together. I won't have a new rebuild kit till tomorrow. I also took out the fuel filter and examined it. There was a bit of rust and scale in the pail after I dumped the contents of the filter out in it. I'll replace it again.

This time, she started to idle fairly nicely but she wouldn't hold a higher rpm without surging and dying. I was under the hood while she was running and I could see fuel dribbling out of the boosters. When she died I heard a gurgling sound from the front of the carb that lasted a few seconds. I popped open the lid and the fuel level was at the top of the carb, above the floats. Please tell me the elastomer valve is shot and I don't have some other issue. If it's not the elastomer valve, could the fuel filter have been so clogged that now I have to reset the float level. I can try doing the latter tonight, but I won't be able to deal with the elastomer valve till tomorrow.

Thanks,

In all fairness, the backward spring issue is not entirely your fault. If you look closely at the instruction illustrations you will find that there are two of them. One is for the very eary 4100 with the extended nose accelerator pump body and the other is for the later more common pump housing. They early one requires the spring to be installed backwards. Most first time 4100 rebuilders make that mistake.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I'd really like to get the 4100 working right. I'm just finding it hard to believe the more things I fix the worse she runs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by deadhead:
I was under the hood while she was running and I could see fuel dribbling out of the boosters. When she died I heard a gurgling sound from the front of the carb that lasted a few seconds. I popped open the lid and the fuel level was at the top of the carb, above the floats. Please tell me the elastomer valve is shot and I don't have some other issue. If it's not the elastomer valve, could the fuel filter have been so clogged that now I have to reset the float level. I can try doing the latter tonight, but I won't be able to deal with the elastomer valve till tomorrow.

---

If you are sure that your folat level is correct, check your needle&seat seat assembly. You replaced the gasket between the seat and the carb body, right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by deadhead:
I'd really like to get the 4100 working right. I'm just finding it hard to believe the more things I fix the worse she runs.

---

Try it some time with a service manager yelling at you.

Don't give up. This is when the learning begins.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Unfortunately, she still won't idle and won't hold ANY rpm without fanning the gas pedal. All the vacuum passages appear to be clear. I did find two things wrong. There was a barely visible vacuum port behind the manual choke cable mount that was not plugged. It looks like a screw hole. It's plugged now. The power valve cover is warped, but it's not leaking fuel. Everything else seems as it should be.

She won't idle and she won't hold any higher rpm. Any ideas?

JOHN

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I replaced the power valve with a Holley #5. They didn't have a plug. The throttle response is crisp, but it still won't idle and it really won't hold any reasonable rpm without stalling. I can keep her running by fanning the gas pedal. I had it running on it's own with the choke plate mostly closed. That has to be a clue.

I had the wife try to keep the engine running while I removed the carb lid. When I lifted the gasket, I noticed the fuel coming out of the needle valve was foamy. Is that normal or another clue? I don't appear to have any fuel leaks. The fuel pump has been in the car since I bought it in 1989. It's a Carter non-rebuildable pump.

Were you using the Ford riser with the PCV connection? I've got that between the carb and the manifold.

I had a CarQuest gasket on there that only had holes for the barrels--no other distinguishing features. I have since replaced it with the gasket that came with the rebuild kit. The gasket material that creates the four holes for the barrels does not quite meet in the center, so it's open there. It also has two small holes, one between the primaries and one between the secondaries. It made no change in the way she runs.

Oh well, that's my problem.

Get a can of carb cleaner or starting fluid. With the engine running as best as you can start spraying the stuff around the base of the carb and spacer. If the idle climbs way up you have one severe vaccum leak. Maybe you even cracked the throttle body in one of the R&R trips. If that doesn't show anything then keep spraying around he intake manifold where it meets the heads. Look for a dramatic RPM increase when you sray the stuff anywhere. I'll be around.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by deadhead:
1_zonie,

Were you using the Ford riser with the PCV connection? I've got that between the carb and the manifold.

---

I found the vacuum leak. Passenger side where the manifold and riser meet. I switched the $4.00 Mr. Gasket for a gasket included in the rebuild kit and that problem was solved. Had her all idling and such last night. HOWEVER, I can't get her to idle low enough, she's hovering around 1200 rpm, to put her into gear without stalling. I think I need some basic tuning advice.

Where do I start--idle speed screw, idle mixture screws, or timing? There's a point on the idle speed screw past which I can't turn the rpms down any more without her stalling. I used that as a baseline for the rest of the work. I thought I had everything wired, but she's making about 15 inches of vacuum at idle (for a while, I'll get to that in a minute), so when I hook the vacuum advance back up the rpms jump. She'll idle for a minute or two now, and then she'll die unless I fan the gas. The wet float height is at 11/16". The vacuum obviously drops as she stalls, but I can't tell if it's a symptom of something or simply the result of the stall.

I don't want to give up on the 4100, but I'd prefer to be driving the car.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Can you stall it with your hand over the choke?

---

I'll check that when I get back. I'm typing to you from the local public library.

If I can, what would it mean?

The problem I need help with now is this:

She'll run forever at a high rpm, say 2000, but won't keep running at 1200 for more than a minute or so. She'll idle, pretty smooth for a while, then run up to about 1500 rpm for a few seconds, then slowly die. I can keep her running by fanning the gas. I can't get her to idle below about 1200 at all, no matter what I do with the idle mixture, idle screw, or timing.

You verified that the floats are set right....

What I'd check next are the air bleeds. You may have one or more plugged, and that would cause vacuum to siphon fuel.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I've still got a problem with an off idle stumble. I'm hoping it'll get taken care of when I work out the vacuum advance problem. CRANE makes an adjustable vacuum advance kit I plan to order along with the MSD Cap-A-Dapt. HOWEVER, could the off idle stumble be caused by the fact the idle speed screw is all the way out? I really need to lower the idle rpms a bit more. I have to put her into neutral while approaching a stop or grit my teeth to put enough pressure on the manual drums.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE TIME AND PATIENCE!!!

My questions will continue, however.

Alex, by the way, I ordered a replacement type CARTER fuel pump. I hadn't planned to actually buy it now since it appears all is as well as it can be. Do you have a differing opinion?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I went to the outside hole and hole #4. The stumble is gone, but acceleration is slow. I have no idea what the timing is now, but at least she'll idle in gear. Would a larger volume accelerator pump diaphram help? If so, is one available?