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Author Topic:   Calling all sheet metal experts....
Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-29-2002 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just started restoring our 67 convertible and have run across some damage in the tail light panel and quarter panel area.
I pretty sure I'll have to replace the tail light panel but I'm not sure how to approach the quarter damage. The car was evidently hit right in the corner were the tail light panel meets the left rear quarter. There was a TON of bondo in the quarter and panel where it was pushed in. I don't know whether to try to hammer it back out or just replace the whole quarter. The rest of the quarter looks ok as far as I can tell (no rust holes or other apparent damage.) I hate to scrap the whole thing just for this one area but on the other hand, I want the job done right and to look good. I looked in the NPD catalog and didn't see a patch panel (other than the full quarter) that includes the area under the quarter extensions but that's what I really need. I've got some pics of the damage that I'll ask Steve to post. Pictures really are worth a thousand words in this case.

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 11-07-2002).]

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm no expert, but...

First, remember, cars only have front fenders, the rear are called quarter panels. {should save you some embarrassment at the body shop}

The rules of thumb for saving panels are 1.] how much rust, 2.] how bent and distorted the beauty lines are, and 3.] how skilled the guy swinging the hammer is.

Number 3 is the most crucial. You have to be REALLY good to hammer out a panel and have it come out looking good and straight without piling on 50 pounds of bondo. That said, you are ALWAYS better off saving original metal whenever possible, IMHO.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-29-2002 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the quarter panel tips.

I would love just to replace the damaged area but I can't find a patch panel that incorporates the area under the quarter panel extensions without replacing the complete quarter panel which I really don't want to do. My concern really is that the damage is in a critical area (where the tail light panel and quarter meet) and I want the new panel to line up and fit properly.

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 10-29-2002).]

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-29-2002 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't seen the photo of the damage yet, but from your description...it sounds like it needs to be pulled out, as on a frame machine. You can accomplish the same with tieing the car down and employing a come-a-long. As you pull (make sure you keep clear) you beat the major folds and damage to help the pull. Worry about metal finish later.

The area has to be shaped first before replacing any sheet meatl. This also includes tramming (measuring) to insure the body is straight. Once pulled, you should find the quarter to be salvageable with only having to put in a rear body panel (OEM not offshore).

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 1746
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 10-29-2002 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had a metal worker putting patches all over my car for the last four months. With a hammer and a couple of weird looking lumps of metal that he uses for making profiles, he is working miracles. I only anticipate having to put a minimum of body filler on just to smooth out the lines.
As for getting the shape of a rear quarter panel correct, he made a template from another car.
This guy is really good, but I'm sure he's not one in a million. I suggest you find a skilled metal worker before you even think about replacing complete panels.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's Robert's pics. They don't look bad at all to me:

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-29-2002 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Steve !
I know it doesn't look that bad compared to how bad it could be. I was hoping to not replace the tail light panel but it's got rust above the light openings on the other side as well and there is a crease along the bottom of the panel contour that really can't be seen from the pictures. I think I might be able to hammer it out. I think after the tail light panel is removed it will be easier to hammer and shape the quarter panel. It doesn't look like whoever worked on it before even tried to hammer out the dents...just put a LOT of filler in and painted it.

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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 10-29-2002).]

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, it looks like you could pull it apart, straighten and clean it up, then spot weld it back in.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-30-2002 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I hammered and pounded using a block of wood and although a step in the right direction it's still a LOOOOOOONG way from being in the ball park. I don't think straightening or patching is going to work. The metal has cracks and holes in it not to mention it's rusty. What about taking that section from a donor car and splicing it into mine ? I'm also still thiniking about replacing the whole quarter. I really want this car to be slick when it's finished.

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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp

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71RESTO
Gearhead

Posts: 1288
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-30-2002 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 71RESTO   Click Here to Email 71RESTO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm by no means an expert, but after having reworked dents and a crushed in spot right where yours is in my quarter panels on my '71, I think I could try and give my 2 cents.
From the pictures, it looks like the rear line on the quarter has been pushed in and that there is already filler from a previous wreck (plus some rust). I think you would be way further ahead patching in another piece in that spot and if the damage is too extensive, then a whole other quarter panel. However having said that, my experience is you are better off replacing as small amount of the panel as possible. So if you can get by with a patch from a donor, then go with that. If all else fails, buy another quarter panel skin (new) and cut out the section you need from that. The trick is too use as little filler as posible and still come out with smooth lines.

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Duane
71 Fastback (his) under resto (351C-4V C6 auto)
73 Mach 1 (hers) (351CJ 4 speed)
66 289/2V coupe (daughter Ashley's)
89 LX 2.3 convertible (daughter Amanda's)
M & M Member #730

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-30-2002 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The tailight panel looks like it's 'Bondo Bound' Removing that would make a 1/4 panel repair easier. A friend here had a 1/4 quite similar, but worse than that, on his 67 Shelby, same side. One shop told him new panel, but the body shop who did his car was able to fix everything with minimal Bondo.

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-31-2002 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the input so far. The problem with using a patch panel will be hiding the seam which will run almost vertical up the side of the quarter. I agree there's probably no saving the tail light panel.
I talked to a body man last night who said he can fix it without replacing the quarter (but he hasn't actually seen the damage yet..) I'm just wondering if replacing the whole quarter would be about the same amount or maybe less work than trying to splice in a patch and hide the seam. I really liked the patch idea until I started thinking about how to flange the repair panel and tack weld it so as to use minimum body filler and it's going to be tough. I'm going to have the guy who is repainting my fastback (Oh yeah!) take a look at it and see what he thinks.

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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 10-31-2002).]

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cobraii351
Journeyman

Posts: 46
From: Altoona, PA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 10-31-2002 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobraii351   Click Here to Email cobraii351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hiding the seam isn' too hard if you do it correctly. I had and issue with the rear quarter on my car and it didn't turn out too bad. And keep in mind I'm not a "body shop" guy. I pound a keyboard all day long. If you put and offset flange in the orginal panel and lay the new one on top. Then weld and cover the seam with filler it doesn't work too bad. Here is a kink to my site showing how I did it.

http://webpages.charter.net/cobraii351/body.htm

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-31-2002 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
CobraII351, Looks Great !! You've given me confidence now. Thanks for the pictures and tips !
What did you use to put the flange in the sheetmetal ?

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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 10-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 10-31-2002).]

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cobraii351
Journeyman

Posts: 46
From: Altoona, PA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 10-31-2002 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobraii351   Click Here to Email cobraii351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.eastwoodco.com/

Item #31092

This isn't what I used. I made my own but you get the idea. Thanks for the complements!

Cobraii351

[This message has been edited by cobraii351 (edited 10-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by cobraii351 (edited 10-31-2002).]

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