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Author Topic:   X-Pipe or No
Colt 68
Journeyman

Posts: 3
From:
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-24-2002 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Colt 68   Click Here to Email Colt 68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm in the process of completing a replica of one of Jerry titus's tran's am cars. I'm Putting my headers on this weekend and I was considering using a Dr. Gas x-pipe. Have any of you ran one of these on a 289 or 302. If so how did it sound and could you tell a difference in power over the traditional balance pipe. Remember my exaust will have to come out in front of the rear wheels so I'll probably have to buy the crossover section only and have the remainder fabricated.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2002 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M Colt !

I have had nothing but poor performance experiances with "X" pipes and do not recomend them on modified engines personally.
If you tell us more about your engine mods and intended usage, I may recomend a crossover or "H" type connector pipe.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1590
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-24-2002 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I went to a NMCA race a few weeks ago, and Charlie Booze was there with his 61 Starliner running Pro-Nostalgia.

The FE engine consisted of 2x4 Tunnel Wedge cast intake, Edelbrock RPM heads, big headers and an X-pipe. All this was backed up by a 4-speed transmission.

He runs in a heads-up class, and WON that event running a 9.01 @ 147 with no bottle!

The car sounds totally wicked with that X-pipe! It sounds like it's turning a bazillion rpm's. It has no mufflers, just what looks like a 4" or so X-pipe behind the headers.

That NMCA class it totally awesome to watch! Imagine an old un-tubbed 61 starliner leaping off the line with a stickshift at a bazillion rpm to those et's. It's an awesome ride!

Someone said he tried the X-pipe and saw no difference in et... but he hasn't taken it off yet. The NASCAR guys seem to like them.

Oh, I think some guy by the name of 'Kuntz' had something to do with his engine.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2002 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know the Booze Bros. very well. I see and talk with them often. Good people and awsome cars.
It's true that they spent a fair amount of money on building that "X" pipe for zero gain except a unique sound. I and Kuntz don't think that a 480+ inch engine will respond as well to exhaust collector enhancments as a small inch motor would.
NASCAR has specific rules concerning exhaust. Unless the rules commitee makes a change, everyone must run the same tail pipes with same exits. Ask a NASCAR engine builder or tuner why they all run "X" pipes.
I did.
I have only tried over the counter ready made "X" pipes from Dr. Gas and Dynotech. Both on NHRA/IHRA stockers, one our own FI car, and the other a associates carbureted chebbie 305. Both I feel well representitive of cubic inch and weight of the current performance masses.
After a full days flogging and tuning, still a loss of .20 from race headers with tuned merge collectors. "X" pipes were tried with and without the merge collectors.
Pulled them off and ET came right back. As I said, MY experiances have been poor.
As I type this, our header builder, Kromer Kraft, is mocking up an trick with some "unique" demensions "H" pipe for us to try on MM. It will slide on behind the merge collectors. He has had some success with a similar system on short track, small inch, two barrel carb cars. We'll see. Maybe even this year yet???

Oh yeah, I think that I know that Kuntz guy. Isn't he from Phillidelphia?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 877
From: Lafayette, IN, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 10-24-2002 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil   Click Here to Email indyphil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I took my car in for a new exhaust system recently. 289 with 4 barrel carb, basically stock. I want a street car, not too much noise. I asked for turbo mufflers.

The result was a true dual system that sounds nice (to me), but he didnt use an H pipe or x-pipe. Am i missing out on some power or low end torque? The car drives nice as is but where in the speed range does the H pipe help? I am curious. I want my car to make good low end torque Im not building a racer.

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-26-2002 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A friend has tried X-pipes on several combos and they may or may not do anything positive (usually in the mid range torque a few ft. lbs). The X pipe helps relieve the pressure pulses that occur 90 degrees apart on the same bank.
They usually make the car quieter though.
Alex's car has thousands of hours of development, so probably no "simple bolt on" parts will make it go faster.....
BTW at the last NASCAR race I went to, about half the field had the X-pipes and about half did not. That tells me that it doesn't do a whole lot....Interestingly Ernie Elliot's motors (Sterling Marlin) have them and the cars are pretty much whisper quiet compared to others.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-26-2002 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's all in the cam anyway. If you get the right cam for the head and intake capabilities, fooling with the collectors is all a waste of time. I have proven it too many times. All you are doing with H or X or extensions is masking up exhaust profile short commings. Unfortunalty it sometimes can be much more expensive tuning camshafts than exhuast systems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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