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Author
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Topic: Sleeve or Bore Engine
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68 FB Dad
Journeyman Posts: 6
From: N. Augusta, SC , USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-05-2002 09:43 PM
  
My son has a 68 FB with a 302 bored .030 over
that has been a nightmare for running hot,
recently he bought a 90 351w engine thet was in a police car. The # 5 piston had a broken
skirt and gouged some scratches in the cylinder wall, the other cylinders have little or no wear .Which is best from the standpoint of having
a cool running engine, Sleeve # 5 cylinder
or bore all to .030 over. Thanks ------------------
David Bailey
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lyle29464
Gearhead Posts: 944
From: Mt. Pleasant S.C.
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-05-2002 11:48 PM
The 351 is going to be harder to cool than the 302 so I would make sure the radiator will do the job. You dont want to start up a fresh rebuild and get it hot before your cam is set.
# I would send the motor out for a very good check with a good machine shop. You need to know why #5 broke. The police car was well used when it was sold. I would change everything.
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2719
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 02:05 AM
It sorta depends on how deep the gouges are. It may not clear up on .030. If it will I would bore it, if not you may want to find another block or sleeve that one.  Good Luck!
------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
"If You can't Run with the Big Dogs Stay on the Porch!"
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Calcat
Journeyman Posts: 75
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 03:34 AM
If you have a good machinist, I would definitely get it sleeved. It will be structurally stronger. Since only 1 cylinder is in question it is cost effective as well.
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68 FB Dad
Journeyman Posts: 6
From: N. Augusta, SC , USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 04:20 PM
The machine shop said that .020 would remove
all of the gouges and surface rust, we are
just trying to determine the best way to go,We dont want another hot running engine like
the current 302 , almost everthing has been
done to it and it still runs 2/3 on the temp
gage at 45 to 55 with no stops (summertime} Thanks to all for your input. ------------------
David Bailey
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 758
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 09:27 PM
If the shop says that .020 will clean it up, I would definitely just bore it .020, that would leave enough for another bore in the future if you ever wanted to rebuilt it again. A .020 overbore 351w shouldn't run any hotter than a standard bore 351w. Had to bore my 302 .040 and that runs at exactly the same temperature as it did before.
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ewokeric
Gearhead Posts: 215
From: woodbridge, va united states
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 09:31 PM
What size radiator do you have. I would go with a 3 or 4 core radiator. I have 3 core on my 351w and it runs cool, also maybe a cooler tstat.just my thoughts ------------------
68 mustang coupe(california special)not real though but looks it(will be nice) 351w/c4
My 68 Coupe
[url=http://mustangsamdmore.50megs.com/ewokeric.html]
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68 FB Dad
Journeyman Posts: 6
From: N. Augusta, SC , USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 10:31 PM
Do they have pistons & rings .020 over ? The
only thing I have found are standard and then
.030 up .The current engine (302) is .030 3core rad.
flowcooler pump , trans. cooler, and a flex
fan and oh yes, it has flowmaster headers.
no ac, no ps, everything has been changed at
one time or other except the crank and the
rods. still runs hot. ------------------
David Bailey
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 758
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 10-06-2002 11:08 PM
Yes, you can get them in a .020 overbore, but most of the better or more high performance companies don't offer that size, so they can be hard to find. Maybe the 302 has a stuck thermostat, a reverse flow waterpump on it, or a bad radiator hose, have seen some hoses completely blocked, and on one of my Grandpa's trucks he had one that you could watch suck itself closed as soon as the thermostat opened.
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Hell_Fish
Gearhead Posts: 860
From: Austin, TX.
Registered: May 2002
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posted 10-07-2002 12:21 PM
How much are you wanting to spend? If only one bore needs work and you want to save some cash, sleeve it. A sleeve ran me $50. If you have some money to spend bore them all and buy new pistons.
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mustangzrule
Journeyman Posts: 87
From: Orion, MI
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 10-07-2002 01:16 PM
Sleeving needs to be done by a skilled machinist, but will end up slightly cheaper than a bore, piston job.If you bore 020/030, you need new 020/030 pistons, anywhere from $200-400 for decent street pistons. And unless you get floating pistons (more $ than press fit) you need to pay for the rod R&R, about $50. This adds up to more than a single sleeve. Sleeve should run you about $100 or so. You will still have to (okay not have to but HIGHLY recommend) new rings regardless of what you do. These typically run $50-100 for a V8. And to seat them, a light hone of the remaining cyl walls for a nice cross hatch pattern. You can do this yourself with the right tools, or the shop could do it probably fairly cheap. My stock 68 302 was notorious for overheating. I finally got p!ssed and put in an aluminum radiator. Don't know what it was, but I flushed the system, replaced the head gaskets (properly), and even ran a cooler thermostat. Nothing worked like the new radiator. It even cools my 408W. I give no positive feedback for stock radiators anymore. 3 core, 4 core, all crap to me.
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4370
From: Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 10-07-2002 09:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mustangzrule:
I give no positive feedback for stock radiators anymore. 3 core, 4 core, all crap to me.
Well said 
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68 FB Dad
Journeyman Posts: 6
From: N. Augusta, SC , USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-08-2002 10:35 AM
In regards to the current engine (302) it was
in a 67 FB was not running (intake off) paid
$700 for it (67FB) it ran hot from day 1 std
bore, new wp, new hv oil pump, went to 3 core
rad, nothing helped. Then ran across a 68 FB
for $1100 that needed slight body work, that
engine ran at 1/3 temp gage-- we took that
engine out bored it .030 ,new pistons,cam, and put it in the 67, 160 deg stat, it ran
at 1/4 temp gage no problem . The 67 was
stolen in Jacksonville 2 yrs later.Rebuilt the 67 engine same way,bored .030 over, new cam, hv oil pump, new pistons,
still ran hot. put new 3 core rad in ,flex
fan, flowcooler pump , no change.
Then bought 77 Monarch for the brakes, took that 302 bored .030 & changed out parts from 67 engine , used 77 intake man & 77 heads
and we still have same problem . Where can we get .020 Pistons ? And yes we are going to use all new parts in the 351. Sorry about such a long reply , Thanks for all the advise . ------------------
David Bailey
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 827
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 10-08-2002 11:13 AM
When you say 1/4 on the temp guage, that leads one to believe that you are going by the factory guage. Those are highly innacurate. Your sending unit could be faulty or the guage itself. With no real numbers to go by, I wouldn't trust that as being accurate.An aftermarket guage would give you real numbers so you would know exactly what the water temp is. You may not have as bad a problem as you think. Just my .02
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68 FB Dad
Journeyman Posts: 6
From: N. Augusta, SC , USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-08-2002 08:11 PM
Well its true we dont know the degree of the
temp , But with the original engine in the 68
it ran cool with the standard rad. We also
swaped the sender with no change.When it gets to its normal temp (hot) it starts pinging when any load is put on the engine, also when the 160 thermostat opens
the engine speed changes, This engine is jinxed , The only thing common to the original engine is the rods & crank, In the
hottest part of summer when he comes in from work he has to hose the raditor down before
shutting down. Where can we get .020 pistons
for the 351 , anyone know ?
This 302 is a mystery to us. There is no reason that it should not run as cool as the
one in the 67 , Murphy's Law ! ------------------
David Bailey
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