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Author Topic:   Over heating
bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-01-2002 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I started a new thread to get some new details out. I have a '65 with a 289, and a new 4 row radiator, new high flow water pump, new hoses, etc. My problem is that when the engine is running the water in the radiator is circulating, but is full of bubbles. The car will get to about 190, then shoot up to about 210 and the radiator over flows about 2 foot high. I did a compression check on all my cylinders last night and all are at least 180 with no leaking. None of the spark plugs were wet, but they were noticeable blacker as the go towards the front of the enging?? The plugs toward the firewall looked better than the plugs toward the radiator (may not mean anything??)... So I thought I had a cracked head or broken head gasket, but all cylinders are holding compression just fine, so I have no idea now...

ANY IDEA'S????
Thanks,
Brian

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-01-2002 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brian, it is normal for SBF windsors to be rich at the front cylinders (1256) and leaner at the rears (3478). Now, I will ask you a question that maybe I have already asked so bare with me.
Who installed the head gaskets?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"

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bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-01-2002 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the engine rebuilt a while back by a guy I know that builds race engines... Don't really know much about the internals unluckily. I pulled the engine - he rebuilt it - then I put it back in. This was about 10 years ago. It sat in a garage for 8 years(my dads garage, and only started about once a year : { ). I shipped it down about 6 months ago, and it ran fine with no over heating problems. I decided to pull the enging and detail it out. Once the block was on the rack all I did was pull the intake, valve covers, water pump and accessories. I replaced the water pump with a aluminum high flow pump, replaced the radiator with a new 4 row, a new elect fan, and new hoses, wires, plugs, etc...

This may be more info than you wanted, and sorry if so, but just wanted you to know the rest of the story...

Thanks,
Brian

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-01-2002 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, that should settle that. I just wanted to make absolutly certain that the head gaskets were installed properly. So many engine builders install one upside down.
Next suspect would be the water pump. Are you sure that it is the correct rotation????
You do know that they make them early and late and that they are designed to go one clock wise and counter clock wise don't you ?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"

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bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-01-2002 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which way does the one for a 65 go? If you are standing in front of the car and looking at the engine? Could that cause all the bubbles to get in the system? I also am guessing that if I have good compression in all cylinders then, I would not have anything wrong with my heads?? Is that a correct assumption??

Thanks,
Brian

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-01-2002 06:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clock wise.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"

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mustangzrule
Journeyman

Posts: 87
From: Orion, MI
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 10-02-2002 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangzrule   Click Here to Email mustangzrule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even though I was discounted for posting this once before, I have personal experience that I am right. If you are not running a thermostat, your radiator will not be able to cool the water enough before it goes back into the engine. You at least need to run a restrictor plate.

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Pierre
Gearhead

Posts: 541
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-02-2002 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pierre   Click Here to Email Pierre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
Which way does the one for a 65 go? If you are standing in front of the car and looking at the engine? Could that cause all the bubbles to get in the system? I also am guessing that if I have good compression in all cylinders then, I would not have anything wrong with my heads?? Is that a correct assumption??

Thanks,
Brian


Catching up from our previous conversation. I am . The only thing I can think of is that a big piece of something eventually got loose after so many years of storage and is clogging your water circuit somewhere. You could also run a water circuit pressure test but it will probably be OK. When you drained your water, did you notice a lot of flakes and/or creamy color ?

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Pierre
Gearhead

Posts: 541
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-02-2002 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pierre   Click Here to Email Pierre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mustangzrule:
Even though I was discounted for posting this once before, I have personal experience that I am right. If you are not running a thermostat, your radiator will not be able to cool the water enough before it goes back into the engine. You at least need to run a restrictor plate.

........was probably me
I haven't been in this business very long, but long enough to know one thing: illogical things do sometime happen and every experience is different.

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bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-02-2002 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well you are not going to belive this BUT - it looks like the problem was my electric fan!!! The wire had a break in it... And I hid this fan between the radiator and the mesh grill, so you cannot see it... What I thought I heard was the fan turned out to be a belt that was just barely loose... And the fan was new, so I was not use to the fan noise anyway....

I hate to admit stupidity, but it sure is cheap to fix!!!
(this time)
Brian

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1271
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-02-2002 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always thought that bubbles in the coolant was bad.
So it's possible to have a bubbling cooling system that has good head gaskets?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25539
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-02-2002 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh well, alls well that ends well.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 5818
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 10-02-2002 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
Well you are not going to belive this BUT - it looks like the problem was my electric fan!!! The wire had a break in it... And I hid this fan between the radiator and the mesh grill, so you cannot see it... What I thought I heard was the fan turned out to be a belt that was just barely loose... And the fan was new, so I was not use to the fan noise anyway....

I hate to admit stupidity, but it sure is cheap to fix!!!
(this time)
Brian


It`s not stupidity , it`s called going through the system , step by step , until you track down the problem and fix it. you did the right thing. As far as I can see it is a job well done. The only concern I have , is , the bubbles in your system , I don,t think that the fan not working would cause those bubbles. I could very well be wrong , but , I would still do a cooling system pressure test , and , a leak down test just to be sure.

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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Pierre
Gearhead

Posts: 541
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-03-2002 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pierre   Click Here to Email Pierre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnmustang:

The only concern I have , is , the bubbles in your system , I don,t think that the fan not working would cause those bubbles. I could very well be wrong , but , I would still do a cooling system pressure test , and , a leak down test just to be sure.

JOHN


Couldn't that be the water reaching boiling point ?

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 5818
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 10-03-2002 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
Couldn't that be the water reaching boiling point ?

Yes it can , but , just for laughs I would still do the cooling system pressure test , and , the leak down test. Remember you boiled it a couple of times , better safe than sorry , just my.02

JOHN

------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-03-2002 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will still get it tested anyway - better safe than sorry on that.... : )

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