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Author Topic:   Cam for 289
Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-06-2002 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm upgrading my 289 and have purchased most of the Edelbrock Performer RPM package including 1.90 heads, and manifold. However the cam kit is not available (something about a fire at the lifter factory). Does anyone have a recommendation on an alternative cam that will work well with the E'brock heads, intake, and Tri-Y's? I haven't checked the compression, but it should be near stock compression ratio (10:1 for an A-code engine, I believe).

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-06-2002 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome Red

Hydraulic lifters are in short supply... I don't think it was a actual 'fire' as much as it was political/governmental enema , but don't quote me on that

I run a Comp 270S, almost identical to the Performer RPM 'stick, with a little less exhaust lift/duration. With the RPM heads (read: deep breathers ) all that duration isn't necessary, especially with a good set of headers. It does have some idle chop ; a 268H would be a good alternative if you don't want to mess with solids

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-06-2002 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an RPM cam and lifters I could sell for $75. If you live near Denver I could send it to a friend by plane (no shipping).

------------------
Alton

68 GT FASTBACK J code
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020432917.jpg
01 GT BULLITT
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020440453.jpg
70 SR 351C
96 OJ BRONCO

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-06-2002 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should add, I too run an RPM (airgap) manifold and big valve aluminum heads on top of 333 cubic inches, with 10.06:1 static c/r. Unless you're running domed pistons, I don't think you'll see 10:1 with a 2.870" stroke and the 64-some cc combustion chambers of those RPM heads. The A-code 289 was in fact rated at 10:1, but with 48cc combustion chambers. Are you running stock cast pistons with four valve reliefs? Your compression ratio with those heads and a compressed gasket thickness of .040~ish (standard FelPro's) could be as low as 8.25:1... just something to think about. I'd hate to have you go to all this work and be disapointed in the results

[This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 09-06-2002).]

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-06-2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys! The engine was rebuilt about 10 years ago (time flies) but I don't remember what was done to it. As I recall, we left the engine as stock as possible, which should have been flat-top pistons. I'll be pulling the heads soon, and then I'll have a better idea of what pistons are in there.

Regarding the AirGap manifold, I was told that there would be interference issues between the air cleaner and hood, so I went with the non-AirGap manifold. Is this true? I would prefer the AirGap manifold if it will fit.

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-06-2002 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about a Crane roller conversion? I already looked into the CompCams roller conversion, but the camshaft is out of stock.

Darkhorse, thanks for the offer. There's a good possibility I'll take you up on it once I figure out whether to go roller or not (I'm leaning that way, but it's gonna be $$). Northglenn is a northern suburb of Denver.

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-06-2002 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I go snowboarding in Keystone. I could even bring it with me.

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-06-2002 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm running a 270H Magnum in my 289 right now. Have been very pleased with it so far

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-07-2002 06:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Red65:

Regarding the AirGap manifold, I was told that there would be interference issues between the air cleaner and hood, so I went with the non-AirGap manifold. Is this true? I would prefer the AirGap manifold if it will fit.

Here's a thread with a pic I posted, addressing hood clearance:

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/003324.html

That's an RPM Airgap manifold with a Holley 780 on it, under a 13" Ford Motorsport air cleaner (3" element). Stock 'early' style (stud mount 1965) motor mounts do sit the motor lower than later (1966-up) 'dog ear' style mounts... it all fits under the stock steel hood quite nicely, but just barely

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-08-2002 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the help. I'm going out of town this week, so it will be next week before I get the old heads off and can get an accurate calculation of what compression ratio will be. I'm starting to get bummed, 'cause I was hoping to stay near 10:1, but that's probably not likely. Hmmm, maybe time to consider that blower if the CR is closer to 8:1?

Sounds like the AirGap won't clear if I use '66 style motor mounts.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-08-2002 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Red65:
Sounds like the AirGap won't clear if I use '66 style motor mounts.


With a shorter element (HiPo style shortie) yes it would fit just fine

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 09-09-2002 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
270 S = 270 H = Anything else =

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
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Quote: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-09-2002 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've noticed no-one has recommended any Ford Motorsport cams... is there a reason?

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 209
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 09-16-2002 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Red65:

Regarding the AirGap manifold, I was told that there would be interference issues between the air cleaner and hood, so I went with the non-AirGap manifold. Is this true? I would prefer the AirGap manifold if it will fit.

I just read a back issue of 5.0 magazine and it stated that the height of the RPM was 4.30" and the height of the Air Gap was 5.31". Do you have 1.01" to spare? Maybe switching to lower motor mounts will eliminate the problem.
The main decision will be based on what you intend to use the car for. If you just want a cruiser, stick with the RPM as it will warmup quicker. If you want to go racing, the AirGap will keep your air-fuel mixture cooler, which mans more power. Figure on some type of scoop or ram air to take full advantage of the set-up. Hot air off the radiator won't help. Hope I this reply does. Good Luck, Charlie

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 209
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 09-16-2002 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Red65:
I've noticed no-one has recommended any Ford Motorsport cams... is there a reason?

Hi, its me again. I was wondering the same thing. The E303 seems to have nearly the same specs as the Edelbrock RPM cam, plus its a roller.
Maybe someone can help us on this one, but I suspect the cam bearings are a different size in the roller motors. Therefore, one would have to use an aftermarket "Retro-Roller" in an older small block. Can anyone varify this? Charlie

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-17-2002 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally, I wouldn't go through the hassle of installing a hyd. roller in an earlier block.

The Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 (XE268H) measures 224/230 @ 0.050" with 0.509"/0.512" lift with a 110 degree lobe seperation. The Xtreme Energy series is a modern line that has fast ramps and produces good power for a hydraulic cam. This one (XE268H) has the same rpm range, but will make more power than the outsourced (generic) Edelbrock unit. I'm not saying the Edelbrock is a 'bad' cam, just the Comp is a little more aggressive. It also has a slightly better (for a carb) 110 degree lobe seperation. The Edelbrock has a 112.

If the $75 Edelbrock cam/lifters are still for sale (and they are new), they would be a great bargin. You pay that much just for lifters these days!

The 302 Air Gap is identical inside to the regular RPM unit. It's also the same height. The 351W Air Gap is advertised to be 10% larger inside and a bit taller than the regular RPM unit. Check www.edelbrock.com for more details.

The cams Alex suggested would also be very good choices.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 09-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 09-17-2002).]

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-17-2002 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike

I noticed on your site that you use 5 leaf springs. Are they standard height or high lift?

Alton

------------------
Alton

68 GT FASTBACK J code
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020432917.jpg
01 GT BULLITT
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020440453.jpg
70 SR 351C
96 OJ BRONCO

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-17-2002 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got the heads pulled this weekend. The pistons are the late '65 style with 4 valve reliefs. Using 4cc's as the volume of the reliefs, and 60cc's for comb. chamber volume gets me a CR of 9.2. Not too bad, I guess.

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Red65
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 09-17-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm thinking roller cam based on some simulations I ran on Desktop Dyno. There's a relatively large improvement with a CompCam retro-roller cam compared to an Edelbrock 7122.

I'll probably stick with the non-AirGap manifold, as the car will mostly be used for cruising. Although I just attended the Denver GrandPrix which featured a vintage race. Kinda got me thinking...

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-17-2002 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68DARKHORSE:
Mike

I noticed on your site that you use 5 leaf springs. Are they standard height or high lift?


Standard Height... but they seem too stiff to me for drag racing. To be optimum for that application, they should be softer. Softer springs, along with a more precise way of locating the axle (ladder bars, etc.) and GOOD shocks are the professional recipe.

Good Luck!


------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 09-17-2002).]

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 290
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-18-2002 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Mike.

------------------
Alton

68 GT FASTBACK J code
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020432917.jpg
01 GT BULLITT
http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/Uploads/1020440453.jpg
70 SR 351C
96 OJ BRONCO

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