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Author Topic:   Cam question
ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2002 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Say I was building a .30 over 302, with a...9.5 comp. and reworked heads. Now, should I stay with the 270H that I have in my 289 right now, or is it alright if I went to a 280H? Besides fuel mileage, what are the main "cons" of going with a bigger cam.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-26-2002 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Less power at lower rpms, and poor idle characteristics are the main cons of stouter cams.

Plus you have a tougher time getting that grin off your face.

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All Fords since 1977!

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2002 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have 3.55 gears already, and plan on installing this 2,000 stall converter after I get the motor in.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-26-2002 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You'd be better off with the 270H. Those are mild as gears and converters go.

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All Fords since 1977!

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-26-2002 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YUP,

I agree, you'll need a 3000+ stall for the 280 cam. Good luck,

SteveW

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2002 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DO you guys have any suggestions for anything "in-between" a 270H and a 280H?

I found this one and was wondering if it would outperform the 270H (it's an Xtreme Energy Cam):

CCA-31-242-3

* Advertised duration: 268 intake/280 exhaust
* Duration at .050 cam lift: 224 intake/230 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .509 in. intake/.512 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 110 degrees
* RPM range: 1,600 to 5,800

[This message has been edited by ice'68 (edited 08-27-2002).]

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-27-2002 06:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ice'68:
DO you guys have any suggestions for anything "in-between" a 270H and a 280H?

I found this one and was wondering if it would outperform the 270H (it's an Xtreme Energy Cam):

CCA-31-242-3

* Advertised duration: 268 intake/280 exhaust
* Duration at .050 cam lift: 224 intake/230 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .509 in. intake/.512 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 110 degrees
* RPM range: 1,600 to 5,800


[This message has been edited by ice'68 (edited 08-27-2002).]


That cam looks streetable. Probably about as big as you want and still use power brakes....

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-27-2002 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There isn't anything that can beat a 270 Comp for all around street performance use.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

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indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 877
From: Lafayette, IN, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 08-27-2002 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil   Click Here to Email indyphil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When "upgrading" to wilder cams, should we also think about compression ratio and piston to valve clearance? 9.5:1 compression ratio that Ice'68 talks about seems low. Idle might be pretty rough that way. are you supposed to increase compression when using wild cams? how do you work around piston to valve clearance issues? At some point there is a cut off where ignoring the idle quality and vacuum, the wilder cams just dont fit a stock engine becauase of the valve-train interference issues. Im thinking about cams myself and would appreciate the racers input...

Phil

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'68 coupe 289 2V
CAT engine performance engineer

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-27-2002 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my experience you should always replace all of the 30+ year old valvetrain equipment with components that are matched to the cam.
Also, if you are making a significant change in cam specs, always check the piston to valve clearence.
Many engines have been ruined due to hot cams mated with stock springs and valves.

------------------
Jim Sams
'69 mustang Coupe
372C

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mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 18183
From: Hampton,Virginia,USA MCA#39406 M&M #12
Registered: May 99

posted 08-27-2002 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68   Click Here to Email mustangs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With the 270H cam we went to 10 to 1 on compression and W.Jr heads.
sam

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-28-2002 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

CCA-31-242-3

* Advertised duration: 268 intake/280 exhaust
* Duration at .050 cam lift: 224 intake/230 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .509 in. intake/.512 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 110 degrees
* RPM range: 1,600 to 5,800


I'm assuming that this cam has a "rough" idle?

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mstngjoe
Journeyman

Posts: 64
From: Oregon
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-29-2002 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mstngjoe   Click Here to Email mstngjoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm running a XE262H that I'm very happy with. My heads are a little re-worked too, but this cam really promotes cylinder filling. Which is a good thing. Lots of torque. Might consider bumping the converter up to 2400 stall. I did and really noticed a difference.

Good luck.

------------------
My Mustang
My engine

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-29-2002 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I have a 2200 stall...it's a TCI Breakaway Converter. What kind of rear-end gears are you running? I'm hoping to upgrade the differential to a trac-loc.

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1853
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-29-2002 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Phil,
Wild or mild you should always check piston to valve clearance. Why wouldn't you. Since your have the motor out already it is cheap insurance. We have all these neat timing sets now, 10 keyways, dial a cam, etc..etc.. this alone should make you want to check every cam you install. I even degree the off the shelf ones just to make sure I didn't get a reject. Not that I get any bad cams or that the advance timing sets are bad, they're good. But there is that chance. Having said that, a 9.1 motor with a mild cam should be fine. check it anyway. cheap insurance. As for working around the issue if you don't have enough clearance, well you can fly cut pistons, get different ones, etc, etc. My general rule of thumb is .100 or greater on exhaust and .075 or greater on intake. Good luck!

------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
"Only Lil boys wear Bowties"

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mstngjoe
Journeyman

Posts: 64
From: Oregon
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-29-2002 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mstngjoe   Click Here to Email mstngjoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ice:

I'm running 3.70 open right now. But I may go to a 3.50 posi after I put in the 331

The BreakAway should work good for you.

------------------
My Mustang
My engine

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mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 18183
From: Hampton,Virginia,USA MCA#39406 M&M #12
Registered: May 99

posted 08-29-2002 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68   Click Here to Email mustangs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the TCI Master rebuild kit in the C4 with the Sat.Nite Special if that helps
sam

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mstngjoe
Journeyman

Posts: 64
From: Oregon
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-29-2002 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mstngjoe   Click Here to Email mstngjoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
66MustangGTCoupe289:

Thanks. And that is a Monte Carlo bar. Stiffens up the front nicely.

It is a .030 over 302. Here are the rest of my specs if you're interested:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/phpBB/yourcars/showbigpic.php?id=209

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My Mustang
My engine

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 08-29-2002 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
There isn't anything that can beat a 270 Comp for all around street performance use.


I'm running a 270S in my 333; with Trick Flow heads and a Holley 780. I was a little worried that the bottom end might feel lazy... until I drove it for the first time

OMG, it's got enough low end snap to suck your eyeballs back (stroker torque dosen't hurt either ), and I've bounced it off the 6000 rpm limiter several times without it wanting to lay over at all. While building the motor, I was figuring on a 6500 rpm pill... now I'm thinking closer to 7000

Alex convinced me to go with the 270 rather than the 282. Listen to what the man says

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-29-2002 10:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So basically what you guys are saying is that the Xtreme Energy cam has no advantages over the 270 Magnum? I mean...don't get me wrong I like the 270 Magnum, I just wanted to go to a bigger (bigger meaning better) cam because I'm building a new engine. But from what I understand, the 270 Mag outperforms the Xtreme Energy. You guys have been extremly helpful in the past, my reason for asking this sort of question.

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mstngjoe
Journeyman

Posts: 64
From: Oregon
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-29-2002 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mstngjoe   Click Here to Email mstngjoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just donned my flamesuit so here goes.

With the setup you are running (9.5 cr & factory heads) a dual pattern cam would work better. The exhaust side needs some help and the slight difference between the intake and exhaust spec would do this. More lift won't do you any good if the air won't flow anyway. Less duration will promote cylinder filling. The XE series cams have aggressive ramp profiles that also help to optimize performance in engines with your cr and heads.

I would agree that the 270 is a great cam. But IMHO, it works best with aftermarket aluminum heads that compliment its single pattern profile. The aftermarket heads don't need any help such as a dual pattern would give. The air flow ratios between the intake and exhaust is more efficient with the AM heads. Thats why the 270 works so well with them. Street motors such as yours (and mine) benefit with the dual patterns.

Whatever you decide on, just make sure the components you choose all work together to help achieve your performance goals.

Good luck.

------------------
My Mustang
My engine

[This message has been edited by mstngjoe (edited 08-30-2002).]

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ice'68
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Fresno, CA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-30-2002 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ice'68   Click Here to Email ice'68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks to all for posting, especially Joe. I now have a better idea of what kind of cam is best suited for my setup.

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