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  Any advice on getting it started??

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Author Topic:   Any advice on getting it started??
bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK - a little history first... I have a 65 fastback that I took the engine and tranny out to clean them up. The only thing I did to the engine was replace the flywheel. Other than that I just cleaned everything up and replaces all external parts with new ones (headers, starter, pump, alt, etc..). While I had the engine back together and out of the car I was able to turn the engine with a socket and rachet manually to make sure all was free. Well I put it all back together yesterday and I go to start it and it will turn one crank or two and dies off like the battery just died. all batteries and cables have been repaced / checked, and it still does this. It is almost like there is too much resistance for the starter to turn it...Does anyone know what would cause this??

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69 Sportsroof
Journeyman

Posts: 65
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-28-2002 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69 Sportsroof   Click Here to Email 69 Sportsroof     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you paint the engine? If so, you need to scrape the paint off where your battery ground cable connects. Did you buy a new battery or are you using one that's been sitting around a while? If the latter is the case, you may need to go ahead and get a new battery.

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did paint the engine, but I bolted the ground cable to the lower engine mount (where it bolts to the bottom of the engine) and I had the battery load tested and all is good (actually tried another battery on it just in case)... So I am at a loss.. It will crank for about one rotation and then it just dies... If I hold the key to start while it is acting dead the ground cable will start smoking... The starting is pulling one hell of a load for some reason. The starter solenoid is VERY hot on that side... Andy thought???

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ewokeric
Journeyman

Posts: 72
From: woodbridge, va united states
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-28-2002 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ewokeric   Click Here to Email ewokeric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i would pull the starter off the engine and bench test it to make sure it is not just a bad starter. A bad set of brushes or bad spot in the amerter will cause a high amp draw. Also did you measure the amp being drawn as the starter is trying to start and what is the voltage at the same time
just a thought

------------------
68 mustang coupe(california special)not real though but looks it(will be nice) 351w/c4
My 68 Coupe

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will pull it tonight and see how it acts on the bench - I have a ohms meter, but don't really know how to use it to test the load. Also should I leave the starter in to test the ohms being drawn or will it do the same with it out on the bench??

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ewokeric
Journeyman

Posts: 72
From: woodbridge, va united states
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-28-2002 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ewokeric   Click Here to Email ewokeric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you will need a dc amp meter to test for amp draw and for a load test you need to leave it in the car and clamp the meter over the positive wire while somebody trys to start. The bench test will tell you if the starter is mechanically ok and should draw a fraction of what it draws in the car. My starter when trying to start the car draws somewhere around 200 amps do not know what it draws out of the car probably around 30 to 50 amps if i had to quess. Hopes this helps. Check all grounds and the wire going to the stater for tightness and if it is corrodied or something
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
I will pull it tonight and see how it acts on the bench - I have a ohms meter, but don't really know how to use it to test the load. Also should I leave the starter in to test the ohms being drawn or will it do the same with it out on the bench??

------------------
68 mustang coupe(california special)not real though but looks it(will be nice) 351w/c4
My 68 Coupe

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the advice - hopefully will have time to pull it tonight and let you know tomorrow.... Anyone else ever had this happen to them feel free to throw a line in, but hoprfully it is something as easy as the starter....


Thanks,
Brian

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 1103
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you tried pulling all 8 plugs, and then cranking it? Is there any possibility of one or more cylinders being filled with water or gasoline? Liquid doesen't like to compress... just something to try before pulling the starter

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I did not have time to pull the starter last night, but I did pull all the plugs to see if that made a difference... It would only turn over twice before and now it will turn over about 4 or 5 times before it would die off... The battery is still fine though.. So I guess I will pull the starter to see if it has any problems.. The starter wire from the solenoid was still to hot too touch though... Still think it could be the starter??

BS

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-29-2002 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds to me like your starter is pooched , I would pull it and check it , first though, just for kicks , check your dist setting , and , loosen all your drive belts , so that there is minimal load on your engine , then try to turn it over , if that does not make any differance , then yank the starter.

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did not think about pulling the dist. or belts... I will see if they make a difference first then... Kind of sucks cause I replaced the starter just cause I had it out - there was nothing wrong with the old one... Oh well


BS

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Hell_Fish
Journeyman

Posts: 45
From: Austin, TX.
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-29-2002 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hell_Fish   Click Here to Email Hell_Fish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you tried bypassing the starter solenoid? It may be killing your power flow.

------------------
Dustin C
56 F-100
Mech. for wifes 69 Mustang coupe
65 Plymouth Barracuda
70 Dodge Swinger

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya - I did that, and even decided to replace it since it was old looking too... That was not it... Man - I hope it is the starter and not something binding in the engine or something like that...

Thanks,
Brian

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-29-2002 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
Ya - I did that, and even decided to replace it since it was old looking too... That was not it... Man - I hope it is the starter and not something binding in the engine or something like that...

Thanks,
Brian


I really doubt that it is an internal problem , all you did was clean it up , and , change external parts. If it was running and starting fine before the " clean up " , it will do it again now. I can guarantee you it is a minor problem causing a major headache. You will find the little gremlin through the process of elimination , and , will probably laugh when you see what it is . Just remember that " NEW " doesn,t always mean better , you can get factory f##k ups , and , you may have that now. Don,t sweat it , it will work out for you

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-29-2002 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
I did not think about pulling the dist. or belts... I will see if they make a difference first then... Kind of sucks cause I replaced the starter just cause I had it out - there was nothing wrong with the old one... Oh well


BS


Don, t pull the dist , just double check that it is properly set.

JOHN

------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok - I won't - you don't think that when I replaced the fly wheel it could have messed anything up???

BS

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-29-2002 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
Ok - I won't - you don't think that when I replaced the fly wheel it could have messed anything up???

BS


Did you use the old fly wheel , or , replace it ? If replaced what is the tooth count , and , is it the proper one for your car , I assume that you have a 289. If your fly wheel and starter are fighting each other you will have the problem you are having now.

JOHN

------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well - I did not really double check the guy - I called O'Reilly auto parts and they said they had one for a 65 mustang with a 289 and I picked it up. I laid one on top of the other and they seemed to be the same size, but I did not count the teeth on it. What is normal for my car and I will see if the box has it labeled or anything?? I still have the old one... Man I hope that is not the case as I really don't want to pull the tranny again... : {

BS

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-29-2002 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bgseib:
Well - I did not really double check the guy - I called O'Reilly auto parts and they said they had one for a 65 mustang with a 289 and I picked it up. I laid one on top of the other and they seemed to be the same size, but I did not count the teeth on it. What is normal for my car and I will see if the box has it labeled or anything?? I still have the old one... Man I hope that is not the case as I really don't want to pull the tranny again... : {

BS


Is your tranny an auto or a standard ? Depending on your tranny these are the fly wheels you should be using:
3 or 4 spd standard with 4bbl = 157 tooth count
3 or 4 spd standard with 2bbl = 164 tooth count
C4 automatic with 2 or 4bbl = 157 tooth count

Is the new fly wheel you picked up , new in box or new used. Did you check to see if it was warped , and , if the balance weights were on it ? Just a few thoughts going through my head.

JOHN

------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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Boss302
Journeyman

Posts: 77
From: Coleman, Wisconsin
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 05-29-2002 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss302   Click Here to Email Boss302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
not to be a comedian or anything, but u could just push it really fast, get in and put in in gear. haha, or tow it with a truck and put in in gear.

i know i'm lame, but i have an excuse....i'm young

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-29-2002 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll tell ya what - as soon as you figure out how to jump start a c4 auto - you let me know... : )

BS

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horseballz
Journeyman

Posts: 91
From: LasVegas,NV
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-30-2002 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for horseballz   Click Here to Email horseballz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, So it's an automatic,
Sounds to me like maybe your torque converter is not fully seated/ engaged and is binding. I hope it didn't damage your front pump. Seen it before, just my $.02
$$$$$$$$$$$
Gene

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68 coupe
289/3speed(soon to be 5.0/5speed)
68 Coupe
289
C4
85 F150 Beater
300/Overdrive Stick
Pre-dent&scatch
2-Unmentionables

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bgseib
Journeyman

Posts: 48
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-30-2002 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK - here is where my lack of experince comes in - Front pump?? I hope that is not the case - when I put it on I forgot the washer ring and did not torque it correctly. I went to spin it and it binded... So I took it back off and read the darn directions and put the washer on and torqued it correctly - and it spun fine so I put the tranny back on and dropped it in... Man I hope that is not what is wrong.. How do you find out if it is binding??

Thanks,
Brian

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 1586
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-30-2002 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When you put your torque converter on , did it click or kinda clunk into place 3 times ? If not you have a pretty big problem. You may have already done some damage because of the first way you did it It is really important that you remember this , if you can not , then I am afraid that it would be best to take it out and check it all.

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 1495
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-31-2002 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
pull the plugs and try to turn the motor by hand with a socket on the crankshaft bolt. it should be fairly easy to turn. if not, you probably didnt seat the converter correctly. good luck

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.56 @88mph 1/8
1.56 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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