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Author
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Topic: Stainless Bolts (engine)
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bgseib
Gearhead Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-28-2002 04:38 PM
   
Ok - this may be a dump question, but I am puting my engine back together and have a perforemer 289 alum. intake and alum. water pump, and was wanting to get bolts that will still look good after a year or so.. I am sure I could just find the right size at a hardware store for the intake, but the water pump is a different story (many sizes). So does anyone know who makes a kit for stainless bolts for aluminum parts per engine type???Thanks,
BS
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-28-2002 04:48 PM
ARP offers them.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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bgseib
Gearhead Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-28-2002 05:01 PM
Sorry - forgot to mention - NO ARP... Only because I have heard nothing but bad things about them....
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-28-2002 05:18 PM
You heard wrong! ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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mvierow
Gearhead Posts: 199
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-28-2002 06:26 PM
Yeah you couldn't have heard that from to many people because they are the best bolts for heavy duty applications that I know of. Summit offers stainless bolt kits as well. Grade 5 bolts from your local hardware store would also work. I did my whole waterpump up that way without a hitch.
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 06:42 PM
Any problems using them? As opposed to OEM.
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 07:11 PM
Yes, they are excellent bolts BUT.......
I ordered the stainless ARP engine accessory kit from Summit for a 302 and most of the bolts fit but some are the wrong length and you have to send them back to ARP for a swap out. It's just a royal pain, especially for what the kit costs. I called ARP to complain and they told me there were about a dozen configurations of bolts for a small block Ford water pump. If I had it to do over, I would just get the intake and valve cover bolts and leave the others alone. I personally don't think the kit is worth the money. I still have bolts that I need to send back for a swap out. Just my $.02On a more positive note, Virginia Mustang sells a stainless bolt kit for all the fender bolts, hood latch etc. They are not the same style as the original bolts but they look great! I forget how much the kit was ($30-$50 I can't remember) but it was money well spent if you don't care about looking completely original. I got tired of trying to keep the fender bolts touched so they wouldn't rust. Stainless looks outstanding !! ------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp [This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 03-28-2002).]
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Hemikiller
Gearhead Posts: 395
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-28-2002 07:29 PM
FYI, according mto John Vermeersch, there are 147 DIFFERENT front dress setups that were used on the SBF engine. From waaaaaaay back in 1962, up 'til '97 when he told me this. 35 years of changes. Obviously, ARP makes the kit for the lowest common denominator, offers you the service to swap out the bolts for free. Granted, you have to mail them back, but if shiny stainless bolts are important, then what's a trip to the post office? BTW, ARP is one of the largest suppliers of engine fasteners to the aftermarket performance industry manufacturers, and I have NEVER heard a bad thing about ARP, EVER!
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65coupei6
Gearhead Posts: 415
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 08:54 PM
I am actually starting to sell stainless steel bolts. My webpage is not completely finished yet, but you can go to :http://shop.mustangindex.com Click on online catalog and wait for the items to appear.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 10:17 PM
My work has all the stainless steel bolts and hardware a guy could dream of. But, the one thing we all know is that s/s hardware is WEAK! It's ok for non load bearing fasteners, but don't use them on anything that is critical. In other words, valve covers (ok), intake manifold (not ok), dipstick hold down (ok), Alternator bracket (not ok), they are about grade 2 bolts. SteveW
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 10:45 PM
Re the Virginia Mustang stainless bolts; Actually the bolt has a head very similar to one of the bolt styles for fenders, etc. Difference: The washer is separate. I bought a set that is now on it's second car. I put the original uglies back in when selling. Yeah, I'm kinda leery of stainless bolts. Their sheer factor is not that great. ARP sells good stuff.
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65coupei6
Gearhead Posts: 415
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 03-28-2002 11:36 PM
Steve is correct. Stainless steel bolts are weak. The kits I sell are for valve covers, water pump, fuel pump, etc.. I would also recommend using a anti-sieze so they do not gall.
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Calcat
Journeyman Posts: 75
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-29-2002 02:34 AM
Stainless comes in a lot of flavors, so you can't say across the board they are weak. But I agree that I would not use them in a shear configuration. But for waterpumps and intake manifolds where they are in pull and the torque to yield is 25lbs or less, they should be fine.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 02:24 PM
You can also order them to your individual needs direct from ARP. We just buy them in bulk form for just that same reason. By the way, I have NEVER broken an ARP stainless bolt and I always over tighten EVERYTHING!  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 02:33 PM
I have an ARP bolt kit, it's pretty nice. One thing that's odd though is I don't think it's actually stainless because the bolts are magnetic! {Stainless is not magnetic}------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
MCA Member # 47773
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-29-2002 05:16 PM
Actually many grades of stainless steel are magnetic. Dan Jones
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 05:19 PM
Really? I thought that was one of their main characteristics. Does it correlate with quality?------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
MCA Member # 47773
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-29-2002 06:03 PM
It can be correlated with certain properties but quality really depends
upon what properties are important. There are various types of stainless
steels: ferritic, martensitic, austenitic, and PH (phase-hardenable) with
a wide range of differing properties. I have a 4" thick handbook on the
properties of common stainless steels so there's not an easy answer to
your question. In general, austentic alloys are relatively non-magnetic when compared to
martensitic or ferritic alloys. Austenitic alloys are formed by adding
nickel or manganese (or similar face-centered element). The common 300
series (T-301, T-304, etc.) stainless steels are austentic and, because of
their high chromium and nickel content, the most corrosion resistant. On
the downside, they can't be heat-treated for hardness, though they can be
cold work-hardened (which may be a bad thing if you are using them for
say brake lines, since they will become brittle). Dan Jones
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 06:09 PM
You must be a metallurgist. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
MCA Member # 47773
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-29-2002 06:36 PM
No, I'm an aerospace and controls system engineer. In fact, the only text book I sold back during my college days was my nature and properties of materials book. I wish I hadn't sold it. Dan Jones
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 06:40 PM
Hell, I'm magnetic!  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 06:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Hell, I'm magnetic!
Yeah, but you're not stainless...  ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
MCA Member # 47773
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-29-2002 07:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
In fact, the only text book I sold back during my college days was my nature and properties of materials book. I wish I hadn't sold it.
I think I still have mine somewhere. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
MCA Member # 47773
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-29-2002 07:02 PM
Stick a magnet in a drawer at the hardware store and they stick, for the most part. The trim screw from 60/70's GM cars are the best. No magnet will pick them up. They are a more brilliant grade and look like new when cleaned. The trim screws that come in packages ie interior set for a given car are, in two words, ca ca. Opinion. The worst trim screws in old cars are, you no doubt guessed, MOPAR.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-29-2002 10:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
In general, austentic alloys are relatively non-magnetic when compared to
martensitic or ferritic alloys. Austenitic alloys are formed by adding
nickel or manganese (or similar face-centered element). The common 300
series (T-301, T-304, etc.) stainless steels are austentic and, because of
their high chromium and nickel content, the most corrosion resistant. On
the downside, they can't be heat-treated for hardness, though they can be
cold work-hardened (which may be a bad thing if you are using them for
say brake lines, since they will become brittle).Dan Jones
All of the stainless hardware I have access to is 300 series stainless. It's ungraded and we don't use it where strength is important. (As a side bar, the 300 series stainless will become magnetic if it is work hardened)
Chromium/steel alloy (the 400 series stainless, which is magnetic btw) could be hardened and may work well for applications requiring a graded fastener. SteveW
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