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Author Topic:   Stainless Bolts (engine)
bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-28-2002 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok - this may be a dump question, but I am puting my engine back together and have a perforemer 289 alum. intake and alum. water pump, and was wanting to get bolts that will still look good after a year or so.. I am sure I could just find the right size at a hardware store for the intake, but the water pump is a different story (many sizes). So does anyone know who makes a kit for stainless bolts for aluminum parts per engine type???

Thanks,
BS

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-28-2002 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ARP offers them.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 109
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-28-2002 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib   Click Here to Email bgseib     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry - forgot to mention - NO ARP... Only because I have heard nothing but bad things about them....

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-28-2002 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You heard wrong!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 199
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-28-2002 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow   Click Here to Email mvierow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah you couldn't have heard that from to many people because they are the best bolts for heavy duty applications that I know of. Summit offers stainless bolt kits as well. Grade 5 bolts from your local hardware store would also work. I did my whole waterpump up that way without a hitch.

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-28-2002 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any problems using them? As opposed to OEM.

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Robert K
Gearhead

Posts: 514
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-28-2002 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert K   Click Here to Email Robert K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, they are excellent bolts BUT.......
I ordered the stainless ARP engine accessory kit from Summit for a 302 and most of the bolts fit but some are the wrong length and you have to send them back to ARP for a swap out. It's just a royal pain, especially for what the kit costs. I called ARP to complain and they told me there were about a dozen configurations of bolts for a small block Ford water pump. If I had it to do over, I would just get the intake and valve cover bolts and leave the others alone. I personally don't think the kit is worth the money. I still have bolts that I need to send back for a swap out. Just my $.02

On a more positive note, Virginia Mustang sells a stainless bolt kit for all the fender bolts, hood latch etc. They are not the same style as the original bolts but they look great! I forget how much the kit was ($30-$50 I can't remember) but it was money well spent if you don't care about looking completely original. I got tired of trying to keep the fender bolts touched so they wouldn't rust. Stainless looks outstanding !!

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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp

[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 03-28-2002).]

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 395
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-28-2002 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FYI, according mto John Vermeersch, there are 147 DIFFERENT front dress setups that were used on the SBF engine. From waaaaaaay back in 1962, up 'til '97 when he told me this. 35 years of changes. Obviously, ARP makes the kit for the lowest common denominator, offers you the service to swap out the bolts for free. Granted, you have to mail them back, but if shiny stainless bolts are important, then what's a trip to the post office? BTW, ARP is one of the largest suppliers of engine fasteners to the aftermarket performance industry manufacturers, and I have NEVER heard a bad thing about ARP, EVER!

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65coupei6
Gearhead

Posts: 415
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-28-2002 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65coupei6   Click Here to Email 65coupei6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am actually starting to sell stainless steel bolts. My webpage is not completely finished yet, but you can go to :

http://shop.mustangindex.com

Click on online catalog and wait for the items to appear.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-28-2002 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My work has all the stainless steel bolts and hardware a guy could dream of. But, the one thing we all know is that s/s hardware is WEAK! It's ok for non load bearing fasteners, but don't use them on anything that is critical. In other words, valve covers (ok), intake manifold (not ok), dipstick hold down (ok), Alternator bracket (not ok), they are about grade 2 bolts.

SteveW

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-28-2002 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Re the Virginia Mustang stainless bolts; Actually the bolt has a head very similar to one of the bolt styles for fenders, etc. Difference: The washer is separate. I bought a set that is now on it's second car. I put the original uglies back in when selling. Yeah, I'm kinda leery of stainless bolts. Their sheer factor is not that great. ARP sells good stuff.

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65coupei6
Gearhead

Posts: 415
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-28-2002 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65coupei6   Click Here to Email 65coupei6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve is correct. Stainless steel bolts are weak. The kits I sell are for valve covers, water pump, fuel pump, etc.. I would also recommend using a anti-sieze so they do not gall.

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Calcat
Journeyman

Posts: 75
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-29-2002 02:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Calcat   Click Here to Email Calcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stainless comes in a lot of flavors, so you can't say across the board they are weak. But I agree that I would not use them in a shear configuration. But for waterpumps and intake manifolds where they are in pull and the torque to yield is 25lbs or less, they should be fine.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can also order them to your individual needs direct from ARP. We just buy them in bulk form for just that same reason. By the way, I have NEVER broken an ARP stainless bolt and I always over tighten EVERYTHING!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an ARP bolt kit, it's pretty nice. One thing that's odd though is I don't think it's actually stainless because the bolts are magnetic! {Stainless is not magnetic}

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-29-2002 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually many grades of stainless steel are magnetic.

Dan Jones

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Really? I thought that was one of their main characteristics. Does it correlate with quality?

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-29-2002 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It can be correlated with certain properties but quality really depends
upon what properties are important. There are various types of stainless
steels: ferritic, martensitic, austenitic, and PH (phase-hardenable) with
a wide range of differing properties. I have a 4" thick handbook on the
properties of common stainless steels so there's not an easy answer to
your question.

In general, austentic alloys are relatively non-magnetic when compared to
martensitic or ferritic alloys. Austenitic alloys are formed by adding
nickel or manganese (or similar face-centered element). The common 300
series (T-301, T-304, etc.) stainless steels are austentic and, because of
their high chromium and nickel content, the most corrosion resistant. On
the downside, they can't be heat-treated for hardness, though they can be
cold work-hardened (which may be a bad thing if you are using them for
say brake lines, since they will become brittle).

Dan Jones

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You must be a metallurgist.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 500
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-29-2002 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, I'm an aerospace and controls system engineer. In fact, the only text book I sold back during my college days was my nature and properties of materials book. I wish I hadn't sold it.

Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hell, I'm magnetic!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Hell, I'm magnetic!


Yeah, but you're not stainless...

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33988
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-29-2002 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
In fact, the only text book I sold back during my college days was my nature and properties of materials book. I wish I hadn't sold it.

I think I still have mine somewhere.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

MCA Member # 47773

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5739
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-29-2002 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stick a magnet in a drawer at the hardware store and they stick, for the most part. The trim screw from 60/70's GM cars are the best. No magnet will pick them up. They are a more brilliant grade and look like new when cleaned. The trim screws that come in packages ie interior set for a given car are, in two words, ca ca. Opinion. The worst trim screws in old cars are, you no doubt guessed, MOPAR.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6602
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-29-2002 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:

In general, austentic alloys are relatively non-magnetic when compared to
martensitic or ferritic alloys. Austenitic alloys are formed by adding
nickel or manganese (or similar face-centered element). The common 300
series (T-301, T-304, etc.) stainless steels are austentic and, because of
their high chromium and nickel content, the most corrosion resistant. On
the downside, they can't be heat-treated for hardness, though they can be
cold work-hardened (which may be a bad thing if you are using them for
say brake lines, since they will become brittle).

Dan Jones



All of the stainless hardware I have access to is 300 series stainless. It's ungraded and we don't use it where strength is important. (As a side bar, the 300 series stainless will become magnetic if it is work hardened)

Chromium/steel alloy (the 400 series stainless, which is magnetic btw) could be hardened and may work well for applications requiring a graded fastener.

SteveW

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