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  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  '64 1/2 to '68 1/2 -- The Classic Mustang
  C4 Transmission Drop (exhaust problem)

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Author Topic:   C4 Transmission Drop (exhaust problem)
rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1459
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-26-2002 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz        Reply w/Quote
Hey Fellas,

Ok, this weekend is the big weekend for the C4 transmission swap (I know, I know this is taking so long to do). Well, I figured I should take a look so I could anticipate the job ahead of me. Well I found that the exhaust pipe is gonna get in the way of the C4 being dropped.

It's in the way by about 6-7 inches. Is there a way I could drop this transmission without removing the exhaust pipe? Should I just angle the front of the C4 so the front drops first? Also what could I use to pin the torque converter so it doesn't fall out? I heard of wedging a wrench or something....can't quite remember...

Also, when removing the transmission mount, do I just remove the transmission mount and leave the crossmember or do I remove it ALL?

Attached is a picture of the situation at hand. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

------------------
1966 Ford Mustang / 289 / C4

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 03-26-2002).]

Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 1123
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-26-2002 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:

Also what could I use to pin the torque converter so it doesn't fall out? I heard of wedging a wrench or something....can't quite remember...

Also, when removing the transmission mount, do I just remove the transmission mount and leave the crossmember or do I remove it ALL?

Attached is a picture of the situation at hand. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I would go ahead and remove the exhaust. You might be able to wrestle it out of there, but then it will be worse when you put it back in.

To hold the converter: After you seperate the trans and engine, but before you slide the trans all the way back (1" gap is fine) use a box end 1/2" wrench. Use a starter bolt and bolt the wrench to the front of the bellhousing using the top starter bolt hole on the bell. Angle the wrench out in front of the converter and tighten it down with the bolt. The wrench will keep the converter from sliding out.

When it's ready to come out, remove the nuts that bolt the trans mount to the crossmember. The lift up on the trans with the jack, taking the weight off the crossmember. Then remove the crossmember. Makes everything easier to handle.
Later,

David Cole

mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 209
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-27-2002 12:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow        Reply w/Quote
I'd definatly remove the exhaust. As Dave mentioned, it will be a real pain to put it back in with the exhaust still attached so you might as well do it now.

Make sure you drain all of the tranny fluid from the tranny and the converter before doing anything else with it. Chances are you'll make a mess at some point if you don't. Drain the converter by removing the inspection plate and rotating the engine manually. Its a small square ended plug (usually).

The cross member can stay attached to the tranny, just disconnect the parking brake then remove the two bolts that bolt to the frame.

Remove the fluid lines that run to the radiator to make it easier on yourself. It's almost mandatory to pick up a 1/2" flare crowfoot for that job, as the rear tube is near impossible to remove with a regular flare wrench. While your at it, pick up a 5/8" racheting box end wrench to speed up removing and installing the top two bolts - not necessary, but helpful.

And most importantly, when you reinstall the converter before reinstalling the tranny don't forget there are THREE splines, not two that you have to mesh. Forgetting that third spline will rip the front pump to shreds and send small bits of metal all though the tranny.

Your best tool for this job though will be a helping hand. I just got done putting mine back in my car by myself with only a floor jack and two jack stands and I'll tell you it wasn't that fun. Took about 4 hours and 50 attempts before the torque converter matched up with the flex plate all while lifting the rear of the motor at the same time I pushed the tranny forward. By the way, I'd recommend buying or borrowing a floor jack with a removable saddle and a wide base under that saddle to hold the tranny up. A second jack is helpful to lift the rear of the motor to mesh up with the tranny while you try to push the tranny forward.

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-27-2002 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT        Reply w/Quote
I would drop the exhaust like the others said! You can get a transmission jack attachment for your floor jack for about $50. This is next on my list of tools to get.

------------------
68 S-code FB GT 4spd(now C6)/3.25 PS PDB
68 J-code(now 289) Cp Sprint"B" C4/3L00-9" PDB PS AC
99 F150 XLT Ext/cab, 4X4, 5.4L, 3L55

mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 209
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-27-2002 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow        Reply w/Quote
I thought about picking up one of those, but to get the tranny under the car while on just the jack itself was tough enough. I had to raise the front almost to the max height of my jack stands just to do it. Does anyone know much much additional height they add?

bgseib
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Tyler, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-28-2002 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bgseib        Reply w/Quote
Honestly - and you may not like this answer - I would just pull the engine and tranny - hell takes about 2 hours from start to finish no worries about clearance under the car, exhaust, or trying to wedge things around. AND it is a heck of lot easier to match the housing up when you are putting it back in with both out.. Then takes all of an hour to get the whole thing back in... PLUS you can clean everything up and make it purty!! : )

BS

H8CHEVY
Gearhead

Posts: 286
From: Southern Cali
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 03-28-2002 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for H8CHEVY        Reply w/Quote
mvierow, I have one of those standard transmisson jacks, attach the socket wrench to it and use that to jack it up, it is somewhere between 3-4 inches tall and its lowest point. makes it a pain to slide the tranny out when on jackstands cause the bellhousing hits. hope this helps...

mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 209
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-28-2002 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow        Reply w/Quote
Yeah that was what I was thinking. As it was I had to pass it from the front of the car and that barely made it. Ofcourse the added sense of security would be nice - not having my lady worry about a 150 pound transmission slipping off a floor jack and knocking out a jack stand while I'm under the car would probably mean less bitching but then again I don't plan on spending to much time under there once I'm done

Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 726
From: Killingworth, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-28-2002 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller        Reply w/Quote
bench pressing a C-4 into place is a time honored tradition of Mustang owners...............

rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1459
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-30-2002 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz        Reply w/Quote
UPDATE:

Okay Fellas,

Car is on stilts at the moment and here is an update of what has been done and some problems...

-Rear main seal and oil pan gaskets were changed and doesn't seem to be leaking.

-C4 was dropped and replaced with a Dynamic Street/Strip C4.

Ok, I changed all the linkage over to the Dynamic C4 and everything went ok. Kept the same speedometer gear and slid it right into the Dynamic C4.

Had some problems attaching the Dynamic to the engine but got it attached. Torqued the bellhousing to front pump to 40 ft. lbs. (per C4 installation video). I slipped the TCI converter to the front pump and spun it multiple times, slid in about 2-3 notches (clack, clack, clack) really fast. Spun it 5-6 times to make sure it was in. Put it on the jack and attempted to mate it.

1. Matched the dowels and screwed in the screws to the engine block (6 total)
2. Made sure to attach the tranny dipstick to one of the bolts and also the vacuum modulator line.
3. Had my uncle rotate the crankshaft so I could attach the flexplate to the converter.
4. Attached the tranmission cooling lines, driveshaft, shift linkage, tranmission kickdown, neutral safety switch, vacuum modulator.
5. Added oil to transmission (initial 4 quarts).
6. Attached starter and battery.

7. PROBLEM: started the car and after about 3-4 seconds we immediately heard a loud fast "clacking" coming from behind the engine. I shut it down and took a look. I remembered about adding more transmission oil so I added 2 more quarts. Started it again and after 3-4 seconds heard the fast loud "clacking" again coming from the tranmission. Shut it down again... took a look underneath again and saw some fluid leaking from the transmission cooling lines. Ok, we figured that's fixable, but not the "clacking" problem. My dad said to start it in neutral so I let him do it. Started it up and no "clacking". He shifted through the gears with the brake off and the wheels (on jackstands) moved fast without any "clacking" Tried reverse, 1, 2, D, Neutral and back to Park. No more "clacking".

Can anyone tell me what that "clacking" was and should I be worried about it? The only 2 things that come to mind is the converter needed time to fill up with oil or the converter may have slid forward during installation of transmission or flexplate to converter installation. We used a 1/2" box wrench to hold the converter in until the tranmission was close the the engine then removed it.

We're going to attack it tomorrow morning (if any parts houses are available).

ANY RESPONSES ARE VERY APPRECIATED.

Regards,

Erik

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 03-30-2002).]

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-31-2002 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Either the inspection cover (if you reinstalled it) was making contact with the flexplate, or....the flexplate was bent a bit on reinstallation of the trans and it (the balance weight) was hitting the starter. Look for some metal shavings in the bell housing. If you see some then that was your problem. If the noise is gone then don't worry about it as it wore down the contact area.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1459
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-31-2002 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz        Reply w/Quote
Alex,

The thing that makes me wonder is why it started to "clack" after 3-4 seconds after the engine was started? Then after we started it in neutral and ran through the gears it was fine? Right now there are 6 quarts of Type F in it. I plan to add more as soon as I go to the store in the morning.

Would an empty converter cause an imbalance of the flexplate? The starter also seems to work fine. I hope it didn't mess up the flywheel? Is there a certain way to re-install the starter?

Thanks!

Regards,

Erik

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-31-2002 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Low fluid would not cause any noise. You did not install the starter incorrectly Erik. It only goes in one way.
I am pretty sure that the flexplate was making contact somewhere. YOu can bend it very easily by bumping it or tightening the converter clockwise/counterclockwise. If you shine a good light up into the converter area of the bell housing and turn the engine over by hand you probably can see some contact marks on the flexplate somewhere. Look closely at the teeth of the flywheel. Don't forget to finish filling the trans in the morning.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1459
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-31-2002 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
YOu can bend it very easily by bumping it or tightening the converter clockwise/counterclockwise.

Alex,

What do you mean by tightening the converter clockwise or counterclockwise? Not sure what you meant. When we attached the converter we rotated the crankshaft clockwise throughout the 4 bolts, starting at 1 bolt then rotating it 180 degrees then the 2nd bolt, then rotating 90 degrees then another 180 degrees. Is there a torque spec? I just tightened it tight. Also, if the flywheel is in fact bent is that a hazard or something to worry about?

Regards,

Erik

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 03-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 03-31-2002).]

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-31-2002 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Erik, if you tightened them down all in a row, and did not alternate top to bottom, or side to side, you may have tweaked the flexplate a bit. Get it? By tightening them all down in order you may have pulled the first bolt/stud down more than the rest causing the flexplate to bend a bit. It is not a hazard as long as it is not making noise anymore or you do not have an abnormal vibration.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-31-2002 12:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
If you tightened it in the sequence you discribed, 180 then 90 etc. you did it right. As I said, it probably made some contact with the starter. To check it out, it is easy enough to pull the starter real quick and look. There will be marks on the nose near the drive teeth.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1459
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-01-2002 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz        Reply w/Quote
UPDATE #2:

Ok, got back on it yesterday morning and fixed one of the two oil leaks (transmission cooling line fittings). Does anyone know how to prevent those fittings from leaking permanently? Gonna fix the other one this afternoon. Also, plan on buying a transmission cooler too.

Adjusted the linkage on the shifter and it started normally. No more "CLACKING"!! I think the only thing left to do is to adjust the kickdown cable. Does anyone know how to properly adjust this cable?

This Dynamic Street/Strip transmission shifts hard and firm even under regular driving. Also, when shifting from Park to Reverse it also seems to "slam" into reverse. Or when I move it from Reverse to Drive, it also "slams" into Drive. Dunno if it could be the driveshaft U-joints or not. Any input?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Regards,

Erik

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 04-01-2002).]

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