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Author
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Topic: 4-wheel disks
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Randy
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: Newriver,Az. U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-21-2001 12:52 AM
   
It's a 67 390 car that came with front disc brakes. After bolting up a versaille disc rear end, I need a bigger bore master cyl., more volume, longer stroke, something. I have to pump the pedal 2 or 3 times to get a good pedal feel. I have installed an adjustable proportioning valve and a 2lb.residual pressure valve in the rear line. That helped but it's not enough. Where can I get the master cyl. I need.------------------
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 10-01-2001 03:39 PM
Do you have the rear calipers adjusted to where the pad is slightly touching the rotor?
If you have power brakes why not use the Versailles master cylinder?
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Randy
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: Newriver,Az. U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-04-2001 11:19 PM
the versaille master cyl. is a different mounting flange, won't work. the pads are adjusted to a .10. I need more volume, size is limited by a big block and the shock tower
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 975
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 10-09-2001 09:33 PM
Have you called Mustangsplus?
They sell Versailles swap parts.
Let me know what they tell you....
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Randy
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: Newriver,Az. U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-14-2001 10:06 PM
I have found that a master cyl. for a 75 ford truck is a direct bolt on and fits. it's taller,(holds more fluid) and has a 1 1/4 bore compared to the 1 in. bore of the stock 67 master cyl. an adjustable pushrod is needed,( my stock one worked fine) and the export brace has to be removed to install or take it out. too bad I'll have to wait 6 wks. or so to try it out as my motor is out for a rebuild right now. if you need the info, try me back when I get it running, I'll be glad to tell what I found. Randy------------------
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460-67Stang
Gearhead Posts: 195
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 10-22-2001 08:59 PM
Randy,
I installed a Versailles rear end and '69 Stang front disks on my '67 Stang and went through the same hunt as you for a M/C.My research determined that I needed about a 1" bore MC with sufficient travel in the bore. I had the Versailles M/C which is a bolt on to the '67 power booster and was designed for 4 wheel disc brakes, but the line connections were on the motor side of the M/C and rubbed against my valve cover (460). I only had 1/4" room between the M/C and valve cover with the versailles M/C. I found a 15/16" bore, small sized, all aluminum M/C from a (get this) 1996 Windstar that works perfect. Had to file 1/4" off the front left corner to clear the shock tower, but there's about 1" of dead meat there anyway......no risk of metal failure. I still have the Versailles M/C. It's aluminum (but the big size) and all polished up. If you can use it I'd sell it. Let me know. Regards,
Brian Bulow ------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
14 yr project just completed! Took first place in Tri State Mustang Club 65-73 Modified class!!
'67 Mustang Coupe Restomod, 472 Motor at about 500 hp, C-6 Tranny w/high stall convertor, 9" rear w/3:50 gears and Detroit Locker, Power Disc brakes all around.
---------->>>>> Got Displacement? <<<<<------------
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Bluegras
Journeyman Posts: 49
From: Easton,Pa.
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-25-2001 12:17 AM
Randy, I don't think you want to go to a larger diameter master cylinder bore. That will make the brake effort harder. I know it doesn't sound right, but is correct. The number of pounds pressure your leg applies to a smaller diameter/cross section, the greater the pressure applied to the hydraulic system. It's like a woman's high heel shoes, the very small area under the little heel concentrates a great deal of weight in a small area as opposed to the area of a larger heel.
Have you considered a 4 wheel disc brake control valve from the late 70s?
You should have a hard pedel in any event, if the air is bled out.
I just finished a job of front disc/rear drum using an early 80s alum valve assembly. The air introduced at the valve takes a lot of bleeding at the rear for the air to travel that distance. After breakin, panic stops showed the rear locking up some. An adjustable valve in the rear line to reduce the pressure made it possible to perfectly proportion the front to rear braking.
Hope this gives some help.
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70MachT-5
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Pasco, WA (on the banks of the Mighty Columbia River)
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 11-27-2001 01:34 PM
Here is THE best source for info on installing a disc brake rear end I have found. http://orlando1.com/dd/hetclub/disc/brakes.htm (pictures and explicit instructions). I am in the middle of doing this installation myself on my '65 coupe. Ok, this site doesnt exist anymore but I have a copy of the entire thing.[This message has been edited by 70MachT-5 (edited 11-27-2001).]
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Randy
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: Newriver,Az. U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 11-28-2001 07:46 PM
any info is surely appreciated, I still have'nt had a chance to see what the truck m.c. will do. I just got my motor back on 11/26 and am waiting on FPA for the headers. What a motor! it dyno'ed at 460hp at 5500 and 480ft. lbs. at 4000 and 4500. Can't wait to run it. Anyway, I should know more about the brake situation in a few weeks. I think what I need is more volume on the stroke, I am hoping the bigger bore will care of that. I'd like see the article with all the tech stuff your're talking about 70MachT-5[------------------
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David
Journeyman Posts: 36
From: CA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-19-2001 06:59 PM
Hey Randy, First thing to do is make sure you have the air out of the system. I know you might think you have it out but sometimes you have to bleed the rear calipers dismounted because when they are mounted up the bleed screw passage is not always at the top to let the air excape. It's easy enough with a block in between the pads just tilt the calipers back and forth to make sure all air is out. ------------------
65 GT Fastback(original owner car)
65 2+2 Fastback
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cpmaverick
Moderator Posts: 1568
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 12-21-2001 08:22 PM
I don't see how the Versailles master cylinder could have worked, they were only hydroboost and the one's I've seen had a crazy flange. Did you remove it from a Versailles? If so what year?Thanks for the Windstar info, I have just been looking for a 15/16 master cylinder for my Maverick w/4 wheel discs. Where the fittings metric? I have a double flaring tool, just curious what fittings I need to buy.
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70MachT-5
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Pasco, WA (on the banks of the Mighty Columbia River)
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 12-22-2001 12:58 AM
Randy,
Get me your fax number or address and I will copy the disc brake tech article. It is THE bible of Versailles rear disc detailed info. I have considered posting it on my website but its not my work.I am in the middle of trying to find an axle vent tube nipple that will work. I am going to have to get back to Mustangs Plus for that little trinket. Does anyone an idea?? My rear didnt come with one. The master cyl. question is alson one I will have to answer. I want to convert to a dual reservoir. Ive heard a '70 p/u master cyl works. Any comments? I have a new set of 3.91:1 gears to try out. ------------------
MarkC ~ 1970 Mach 1 T-5
1965 coupe vintage racer
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SundanceKid
Gearhead Posts: 1033
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-02-2002 02:55 PM
Bluegras is correct. The only thing that should limit your "volume" is the pedal to the floor or piston in the bore. Does your pedal goto the floor? Does it stop mid way solid? If the brake pads have all the slack taken out of them and the push rod is adjusted correctly then you must still have air in your lines.
Also some Granadas came with manual brakes and 4 wheel disc.
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460-67Stang
Gearhead Posts: 195
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-09-2002 10:01 PM
quote:
Where the fittings metric? I have a double flaring tool, just curious what fittings I need to buy. [/B]
CPMaverick - yes the fittings are metric. Not sure what size. I took the M/C into my local trust Auto parts stire. They let me try all kinds of different pre-made lines and I eventually found the right size. By the way, the way to get the '96 Windstar M/C is from a bone yard, NOT a parts store. That thing is OUTRAGEOUSLY priced. Since it's aluminum it won't rot and there should be plenty in the boneyard ready for the taking. So go to your local boneyard and save a bundle. Brian
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Randy
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: Newriver,Az. U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-10-2002 09:04 PM
70MachT-5, my email address is [email protected],if you could send that versailles info I'd sure like to look it over. Here's what I've found so far. The 76 truck m.c. works better,this is the best they've been so far. The volume is there, but as someone mentioned earlier, the 1 1/4 bore takes more pressure, so much in fact, that although I can stop pretty quick, I can't apply enough to lock up the wheels on pavement and I can stomp those things plenty hard. From what I understand, some m.c.'s have a longer stroke for more volume and still retain a smaller bore for higher pressures that would suit my application - more on this later, all the info here has been of some help.
Randy------------------
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cpmaverick
Moderator Posts: 1568
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-17-2002 02:58 PM
Thanks Brian, I did look into a new Windstar M/C  They are pricey.The Granadas and Monarchs with 4-wheel discs all had hydroboost as well. I looked long and hard into this since I have the Versailles rear and Granada front discs, but it is a dead end.
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SundanceKid
Gearhead Posts: 1033
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-18-2002 12:57 AM
cpmaverick, did you need a hydro-boost system?
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