Brought to you in part by:

.

Tools and Supplies at Eastwood

  Mustangsandmore Forums
  '64 1/2 to '73 -- The Classic Mustang
  Tremec 5spd in a 65 Stang

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Tremec 5spd in a 65 Stang
SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-18-2002 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, I spoke with D&D and Dark horse performance today. They both said that the Tremec requires serious trans hump alterations. Has anyone installed a Tremec in their 65-66 Mustang yet?
The only site on the web with info doesn't mention anything about the floor needing to be cut.
By the way the sales staff at Dark Horse Performance were top notch, I "WAS" very impressed!

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 13182
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Horsepower TV did it last year and had to make a few minor modifications as I remember.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-19-2002 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, LOL last night I searched through a hundred shows to find it,

WHAT A HACK JOB!

They cut a 6in. X 18in. hole in the floor, cut the floor support out, drilled slots in both the mount and the crossmember....?

I'm thinking cut the spotwelds from the floor brace move it back then with a air hammer bulge the floor were needed?

But theres more to it then that. the 3.72 first gear is too low to use with any "real" gears. Apparently they shift like crap and leak oil too!

Arrrg.....Fords

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 13182
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have always had great luck with the T-5 WOrld Class 5 speeds right from FRPP.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 510
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-19-2002 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't listen to them. They told us the same thing. We had to make a hole for the shifter, but that was about it. IIRC, there wans't much if ANY grinding on the tunnel.

IP: Logged

65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 510
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-19-2002 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SundanceKid:
But theres more to it then that. the 3.72 first gear is too low to use with any "real" gears. Apparently they shift like crap and leak oil too!

Arrrg.....Fords


Ummmm.......

1. It's a 3.27 first gear.

2. I run it with 4.11's.

3. They shift fine, as long as you get an aftermarket shifter AND LET IT BREAK IN PROPERLY!

4. No leaks so far, and it's been over a year since we got it.

[This message has been edited by 65_289 (edited 02-19-2002).]

IP: Logged

2bav8
Gearhead

Posts: 179
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-19-2002 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2bav8   Click Here to Email 2bav8     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know why some people need to modify they tranny tunnel. My Tremec TKO went in better than the old T-5 I replaced.

I've been power shifting the Tremec since '98 now and its still working like a charm.

------------------
2BAV8 Mustang
www.geocities.com/2bav8
[email protected]
1966 Restomod Coupe

IP: Logged

unklshu
Gearhead

Posts: 642
From: San Bernardino, Ca
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-19-2002 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for unklshu   Click Here to Email unklshu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know how much different they are but I also put a Tremmec in my 68. I had to cut the shifter opening a little but not much,and I had to modify the crossmember. I really think it was worth it.

------------------
joe
2001 SVT Cobra
68 GT Fastback
98 F-150
90 Escort GT (smokes the tires in all 5 gears, or just smokes through all gears)

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-20-2002 04:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First off thank you for your replies...more then I ever expected!

Alex, I would realy love to use a T-5. The way I shift I know that I will splatter that thing in a year. No brag just fact!

65_289, Sorry I'm dyslexic I meant 3.27. Most of the info I have on how they shift leak drive ect. came from reviews on Stangnet, most if not all people if they post a complaint is the notchy shifting and the leaks, also that they are noticably loud.

I have been told by D&D Dark Horse and Modern Driveline, there are two ways to install a Tremec.
First and from what they all said the incorrect way, is to just install it no trans hump mods but a lower mount. They all said this causes driveline angle problems and severe driveshaft vibration.
I think I belive them because they actualy make more money this way then the other way because they can sell a lowered cross member.
The other so they say correct way is to move the floor support back and use the stock crossmember. D&D and Dark Horse said to cut the trans tunnel Modern Driveline said to make clearance where needed...I take that as hammer form the metal?

If you guys convince me to get a Tremec (I would appreciate it) I can get one for 100.00 more then a T-5 but then I won't need a special crossmember...so will save 28.00 in the end!

This is a serious chunk of change to me! I want to spend the money wisely and only once. My car is on hold till I figure what trans I am going to use. So far I've racked my brain for 7 month now.

This is one of those things I have to take peoples word on? So I have no choice but to believe what I am told and sift through the mis-information.

IP: Logged

65_302
Journeyman

Posts: 66
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-20-2002 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As stated previously, we have had no trouble with my son's Tremec in the '65 coupe. It did require some minor mods to the tunnel, but they were minor. With the special cross member made for it, there is no driveline change. The shifter is not great. We changed to a Steeda Tri Ax and all is good now. No leaks for almost 10K miles now. The only downside I know of is they are heavier than your typical toploader.

Here is what I "HEARED" about the tunnel problems. Not all floor pan braces where put in the exact same place. If they are 1" back of where they blong, then you have extra work to do. Don't know that for a fact, but its what I heared. That's my $.02.

IP: Logged

MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 685
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 02-20-2002 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about a viper spec T56? I don't like the ultra deep first gear of the tremec or the subsequent large rpm drop on the 1-2 shift. Besides, with a .5 6th gear, I could cruise with a 4.33 like it was a 2.17.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-21-2002 04:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ever price a T-56? a 6 speed is one too many gears. If I wasn't concerened ith gas miledge I wouldn't even bother with a 5spd and keep my toploader.

65_302, thanks for the reply. I have heard many people complain about down shifting being hard too? Any problems with down shifting? This will be a track car so i't kinda important to shift smooth both down and up. How did you break it in and what oil/fluid did you use?

Thanks

IP: Logged

MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 685
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 02-21-2002 07:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I have. One other thing to consider is that they're rated at 550lb/ft, which is higher than a TKO at 525. The standard 3550 is rated at 425. I just like the idea of running a 4.33-4.56 gear without worrying about cruising rpms at all.

.68 5th (same) * 4.11 = 2.79
.5 6th (same) * 4.56 = 2.28

Even with 4.56s over 4.11s to get a little more launch with a 2.66 1st (reasonable) compared to a 3.27 1st (too deep IMO), you can still cruise at considerably lower rpm. I like my trannies relatively close ratio, so I'm just saying the tremec isn't really an option for me. It's a good tranny - I'm not bashing it. I'd just rather pay the extra money when that time comes for a more reasonably geared tranny without the rpm drops and with that nice .5 6th gear.

I know it's a bigger tranny, so I was just wondering what's involved in installing one in classic sheetmetal. Until this works its way up to the top on my priority list (it'll be a while), I'll stick with my good ole wide ratio toploader.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

IP: Logged

65_302
Journeyman

Posts: 66
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-21-2002 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sundance, the break in is ~500 miles with no gear jamming. Oil is the GM synthetic used in the automatics. I think its called Synchromesh or something like that. Cost $9.00 qt and takes 3 qts. Downshifting is no problem at all. I will watch the rpm drop you reference from 1 - 2. Never noticed it being that much.

The one thing to remember is you will add weight. The only reason we did not go back with a good heavy duty toploader is the cars' use. When we do the stroker kit and it becomes a weekend warrior, we may look at going back to a toploader, MAYBE. Its still a daily driver that sees highway use often. With 4.11s we NEEDED the 5th gear, or a direct line to the local CITGO.

IP: Logged

65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 510
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-21-2002 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 65_302:
Sundance, the break in is ~500 miles with no gear jamming. Oil is the GM synthetic used in the automatics. I think its called Synchromesh or something like that. Cost $9.00 qt and takes 3 qts. Downshifting is no problem at all. I will watch the rpm drop you reference from 1 - 2. Never noticed it being that much.

The one thing to remember is you will add weight. The only reason we did not go back with a good heavy duty toploader is the cars' use. When we do the stroker kit and it becomes a weekend warrior, we may look at going back to a toploader, MAYBE. Its still a daily driver that sees highway use often. With 4.11s we NEEDED the 5th gear, or a direct line to the local CITGO.


Nope. After the stroker, it's a Pro-shifted Liberty and double clutching for downshifts!!

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-06-2002 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124936

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109972&highlight=tremec

Check these posts on Stangnet tell me what you think?

Thanks

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-06-2002 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No offense but if a Tremec goes in at an angle like that...and you think that is Ok or correctly installed. SEEK F'n HELP!

I'm about to loose my cool here!
I'm getting F'n tired of companies and people telling me that "The trans goes right in no problems."

I keep telling myself maybe these people don't know better, maybe they like driveline vibration and the posibility of screwing their car or worse. Maybe the thought of haveing the engine and tranny hanging on the ground is a new cool trend?

Well if you have drivetrain angles like that fine cool...but don't tell others to do the same thing...cuz guess what, It ain't ok and do the other guy a favor by telling him the whole story. If it requires to alter the trans tunnel why not just say "You will need to cut and get 2" clearance in the trans tunnel." Not "Yeah...fit's right in."

I'm sorry but to me, by saying "It fits right in." that says little if any mods are required! I sertainly do not consider cutting half the floor out as fitting right in!
Agreed, differant people differant abilities. For those who have experience this sort of modification is a simple matter. But for those with little mechanical skills don't tell them it just bolts in and your on your marry F'n way!

SORRY I just read the above threads I posted and one guy in perticular was very missleading to this young guy and the few others that chimed in helped to perpetuate the on going Bullsh!+ I dono I guess I could be wrong?

I'm glad M&M has a higher standard than this.

IP: Logged

Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 446
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-06-2002 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So does a Tremec go into a '69 easier?
If these guys shim the tranny 1.75", does the tranny crossmember become a ground clearence problem? It would on my car...
Of course everybody knows that there are few true "Bolt On" parts...

IP: Logged

65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 510
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-06-2002 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SundanceKid:
No offense but if a Tremec goes in at an angle like that...and you think that is Ok or correctly installed. SEEK F'n HELP!

I'm about to loose my cool here!
I'm getting F'n tired of companies and people telling me that "The trans goes right in no problems."

I keep telling myself maybe these people don't know better, maybe they like driveline vibration and the posibility of screwing their car or worse. Maybe the thought of haveing the engine and tranny hanging on the ground is a new cool trend?

Well if you have drivetrain angles like that fine cool...but don't tell others to do the same thing...cuz guess what, It ain't ok and do the other guy a favor by telling him the whole story. If it requires to alter the trans tunnel why not just say "You will need to cut and get 2" clearance in the trans tunnel." Not "Yeah...fit's right in."

I'm sorry but to me, by saying "It fits right in." that says little if any mods are required! I sertainly do not consider cutting half the floor out as fitting right in!
Agreed, differant people differant abilities. For those who have experience this sort of modification is a simple matter. But for those with little mechanical skills don't tell them it just bolts in and your on your marry F'n way!

SORRY I just read the above threads I posted and one guy in perticular was very missleading to this young guy and the few others that chimed in helped to perpetuate the on going Bullsh!+ I dono I guess I could be wrong?

I'm glad M&M has a higher standard than this.


[edit] My Tremec doesn't look like that.

I am tired of hearing about that one guy. Yes, he is having problems. No, I haven't heard of ANYONE else with the same problem. We got a custom crossmember with ours. Maybe he is using a stock one and that is his problem.

www.swarrauto.com Jim Swarr set us up nicely.

[edit] Look, you can believe whoever you want. You can look at one guy having massive problems, or you can llok at the many others who are completely satisfied. I am sure there are many more satisfied ones than there are people who have an angle like that.

[This message has been edited by 65_289 (edited 03-06-2002).]

IP: Logged

Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 327
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-06-2002 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sundance,

I put a Tremec TKO in my '66 fastback using one of Darkhorse Performance's crossmembers. This was many years ago and I did not have any clearance issues and did not have to do any tunnel work. One of the bolts was tricky but I believe a curved obstruction box wrench worked for me. I did have driveline vibration but I did not attribute it to the tranny crossmember at the time since I also swapped in a 351C, shortened driveshaft, and a drag race 9" housing at the same time. I would have guessed it was the housing but really didn't think about it. In any sort of driveline swap, it's important to get the output of the transmission parallel to the input to the rear end. On a leaf sprung car, the easiest way to do this is to add wedge shims to the spring attach points. This will rotate the housing.

Also, the 3.27:1 first gear is similar to the typical 3.35:1 first in a T-5 (X and Z code are 2.95:1). Use the specific part number GM Syncromesh fluid called out in the users manual. It was developed for GM manual gear boxes (not automatics which use Dexron ATF) and add an aftermarket shifter (may need to trim the hole in the floor where the shifter pops through to fit the aftermarket shifter).

Jim,

They go into '69's just fine. Nayoki Kamiya (was on Fordnatics years ago when I was) has one behind the 428CJ in his Mach 1. I should have his installation details saved off somewhere. Email me and I look for them.

Dan Jones

IP: Logged

Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 327
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-06-2002 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One other thing which may or may not be important. I'm using '65 motor mounts (I think) which are a different height due to my headers. This could change the driveline angle slightly I suppose.

Dan Jones

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-06-2002 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Dan, It was 5:00 AM when I wrote that sleep depervation (ya know) I appologize for going off the deep end. I have heard so many wish washy stories one person says this another says that!
The HotRod feature that Alex spoke of they cut the living $h!+ out of that Mustang (65 fastback) and these guys are suppost to be pros? I would never film that kind of butchering...God now has proof of how big a A-holes they are...LOL! Sacrilige!
That guy is like a day younger then me and I called him a young man..LOL. I admit he needs to grow some ballz and quite whinning so much! I feel for him though. I need to do my swap, learn as much as I can and figure out web design and post the "truth" so others can complain about my info! LOL

IP: Logged

Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 906
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-07-2002 03:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry to poach on your thread Sundance, but I'm with Neal, Has anyone done a 6psd?
to breing me somewhat in line, I'll be doing either a 5spd or 6 spd before my car sees the road again.

------------------
Marcus?
"To do something well is worthwhile, and that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy.
It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
- Bruce McLaren,
founder of the McLaren Formula One team, who died in a testing accident in England in 1970.

IP: Logged

Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 327
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-07-2002 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do the math first to see if a six speed is usable. With a cam with a lot of overlap, you need to have some cruise RPM before the lope smooths out. The BW T56 (now produced by Tremec like the T5 and T45) has a very tall sixth gear and would be of little use in most of my cars. If you're drag racing the car and have very steep rear gears the overall ratio may work however. Figure out what RPM your cam needs, then figure out what gear puts you there. I can supply the equations or there are several on-line calculators.

Dan Jones
Dan Jones

IP: Logged

Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 906
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-07-2002 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the offer Dan. In my case, we are talking about a fuelie 5 litre, nearly dead stock with a steep set of rear gears. The (hypothetic) goal is to be able hop in the car and drive from Cali to New York and back with out breaking a sweat. The lower my cruise RPM's on the open road, the happier I'll be

------------------
Marcus?
"To do something well is worthwhile, and that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy.
It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
- Bruce McLaren,
founder of the McLaren Formula One team, who died in a testing accident in England in 1970.

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-07-2002 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everything I build usualy has a pretty heathy power band. To me, to make a six speed useable I would have to shift three times to get through an intersection! LOL

I only need one overdriven gear. Remember too, the more gears you have the more gears you spin the less power to the wheels.

I don't know if shifting six times even five times in a quarter would be very productive? Even if your Qwickdraw McGraw with the clutch pedal?

Just MHO
I could be wrong.

IP: Logged

Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 327
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-07-2002 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A short duration stock cam with long runner EFI would be one place where a six speed might make sense. Now you just have to get the cost/size barrier.

Dan Jones

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-07-2002 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, just ordered a TKO 525ft/lbs We'll see how it goes in?

Thanks for all your help and continueing the knowledge source

IP: Logged

I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5649
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-07-2002 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let us know how it goes, I'll be watching because of my 393 project .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-07-2002 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, LOL I came up with more questions!

What aftermarket shifter is best? (opinions)

What rear gear should I use? (opinions)

I personaly think a 350-370 would be perfect, but I would love to hear your input.


IP: Logged

Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 906
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-07-2002 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gear, would depend totally on the motor combo and intended use (slaps self on wrist. I think you wrote it out earlier in the tread but I can't remember off the top of my head)...
How high are you comfortable taching it on the freeway?
I am going with 3:55's if I stay with the 5 spd, and probably 3:70~ish with a 6 spd... (near stock late model five liter)

Shifter? I liked the feel of the pro-5.0 I was playing with the other day. I am sure others have much more experience thatn I though...

------------------
Marcus?
"To do something well is worthwhile, and that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy.
It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
- Bruce McLaren,
founder of the McLaren Formula One team, who died in a testing accident in England in 1970.

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-08-2002 05:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have posted what the cars use will be, but not in this thread. Your probably thinking of other threads.
Here goes:
1.400 HP 390 Ft/lbs +or- 20?

2.Must still be able to be used as a daily driver (not nessesary, but why not for fun)

3. Freeway RPM under 2600 @75 MPH (opinions?)

4. Used mostly for AutoX approx 10-20 times per year.

5. Used for Drag racing 3-4 times per year.

6. Car will be lighten to the maximum possible and weight balance as close to 50/50 as I can get.

7. Cam duration in the 270-280 range


IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-08-2002 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All on street tires or road course slicks, never drag slicks.

IP: Logged

KevinV
Journeyman

Posts: 1
From: Orange, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 03-09-2002 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KevinV     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One part of this I don't hear anyone mention is the motor mounts. There are two kinds of motor mounts, one causes the engine to sit higher. I don't recall all the details but I think the higher ride version was used first, then at some point Ford switched to the lower ride mounts.

One of the shops told me that if I used the lower ride mounts, the tunnel would not have to be modified as much if at all. Maybe some of the variation of opinions on whether any after market tranny fits with or without mods is related to the motor mounts. I wouldn't think the motor mounts would affect mods needed towards the rear of the tunnel, but it definitely would affect the need for mods towards the front of the tunnel.

I have the high ride mounts and the tunnel had to be modified for the TR3550 to fit. I have a 65.

IP: Logged

Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 906
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-09-2002 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
according to the tech calculator on corral.net
With a tremec in 5th, at 2600 RPM, 75 mph, and (I guessed) 225/50/16's you would get a rearend ratio of 3.77, so call it 3.70's and you are just a touch under where you want to be for cruising..
Now, that begs the question, what size tires are you planning on running?

What kinds of autocross tracks do they design in your area? Are they wide and fast or narrow and slow? You don't want to end up having to shift during your run....
just another thing to think about!
This will also affect your cam choice, you will need a nice wide power band.

BTW Sundance, are you in the military?

------------------
Marcus?
"To do something well is worthwhile, and that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy.
It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
- Bruce McLaren,
founder of the McLaren Formula One team, who died in a testing accident in England in 1970.

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-09-2002 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
245+ 45-17's so in the 25-26.5" range of tire size. Depends on where I am racing, some are short and tight some are long and wide (very fast) I figure 120 MPH easy with the stang when done on the high speed course.

As for the mounts, I've been under the impression that the 65's are the lower ones? Is this correct? My oilpan is like 1/2" away from the cross member.

Thanks

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-09-2002 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greenstang, Nope not in the military. Why?

IP: Logged

Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 906
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-09-2002 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just curious
On a sportscar board I read, there is a guy from UT with a handle of Sundance305 and with the your post about autocrossing it all (seemed to) click, I thought you might be him...

------------------
Marcus? <-- needs to learn to type
Green 68 <-- Satan
88 Ninja 600R <-- Black Death

[This message has been edited by Greenstang (edited 03-09-2002).]

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-09-2002 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope, not me.


Mr. Wesson22 and Daniel, Today while looking through my info on trannies I was looking over the T56 and while I still can't find any info on installing them in a early Mustang, I know there are sites that show installs into late model Mustangs.
One thing your going to have to consider is the trans mount. It is right below the shifter. That is gonna be real fun to get a mount to work for it.

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-11-2002 03:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those interested, Mcleod is about to release two new bellhousings for the T56. One for windsors the other for modulars.

IP: Logged

MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 685
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 03-11-2002 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have PLENTY of time to make up my mind before I dive into a 5 or 6 speed. Higher on the list of priorities is a new 9" rear - I'm still running an 8" and am anticipating around 450+hp out of a 351C. I'll probably end up going with a tremec tko, but if I were made of money, I'd definately get the t56. My brother has an 89 mustang t5, and that 3.35 1st drives me crazy. I like closer ratios personally, but I guess it's just me. As for the question about going through 5 or 6 gears in the 1/4, I'm looking to run enough gear in the rear to cross the line at or around the top of 4th then still have a decent cruise rpm. 4.33s with the tko to get me across the finish line around 6500 or so would be way too much gear in 1st. Besides, a .5 6th would really help out those 4.33s -- it would cruise like 2.16s in 6th, whereas a .68 5th with a 3.50 rear (to have the same final drive in 1st) would cruise like 2.38s still. I would end up crossing the stripe in 3rd. With a stock t5 (3.35 1st), you lose 2800 rpms shifting from 1-2 at 6800. That would drop me way out of my powerband. I dunno... I guess I have a year or two to debate this. If my posts have sounded like I'm bashing the tremec 3550 or tko, I apologize. They're good trannies - I'm just not a big fan of the gear ratio choices.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

[This message has been edited by MrWesson22 (edited 03-11-2002).]

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-12-2002 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I talked to D&D and they said the Tremec and the T56 have the same gear range. The lower gear of the Tremec needs less rear gear and the t56 needs more rear gear to compensate for the higher 1st gear. The problem with the T56 is that with the higher rear and double over drive drive shaft speed becomes excessive and will require a composite driveshaft.
Also an interesting note on the 3550 and TKO with exception of the input and output shafts they are the exact same transmission the TKO has a larger input shaft 1 1/8" 28 tooth as opposed to 1 1/16" 10 tooth. the shafts are made of the same 4615 steel for both and the TKO is not much stronger then the 3550. reported at 10 ft/lbs more from TTC.

IP: Logged

MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 685
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 03-12-2002 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember, there are 2 entirely different t56s out there for fords. The tremec t56 has a 3.27 1st and a .62 6th. The viper spec t56 has a 2.66 1st and a .5 6th.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-12-2002 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Viper T56 was the one I was talking about.

IP: Logged

289 Rod
Journeyman

Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-10-2002 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 289 Rod   Click Here to Email 289 Rod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To many which is better questions for the T5 and T56! I want a high performance transmission that can take the abuse, which is better canidate?

I am going on these factors:

- Ease of installation

- Performance (as in which has good 0-60)
I would think that the T56 has more spinning mass meaning a harder time accelerating

- Easy Shifting

Did I forget anything? If I did please inform my lame thread. Thank you in advance

------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!

IP: Logged

bossman
Gearhead

Posts: 127
From: Moreno Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 04-10-2002 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bossman   Click Here to Email bossman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 289 Rod:
To many which is better questions for the T5 and T56! I want a high performance transmission that can take the abuse, which is better canidate?


One thing not mentioned concerning the T56 swap is the massive size of the 6 speed. Put a T5 and T56 side by side and you will see what I am talking about. The few installs I have seen on the early cars requires quite a bit of "massaging" to the tunnel.

I think what you have to REALLY ask yourself is what application are you shooting for? I own a 1997 Pontiac Formula Firebird LT1 with a 6 speed and also a 1999 Camaro SS with the LS1 6 speed. Both cars have 3.42 rear gears and both are capable of some pretty steep top ends. I have had the Firebird up to 145 and the Camaro at 155, a lot due in part to the aerodynamics of the car AND the 6 speed with TWO overdriven gears. In my own project 65 Fastback (Xtremestang), I have a worked over World Class T5. I agree with Alex in that the 5.0 crowd has had LOTZ of success with these transmissions. I personally chose the T5 for my car as it will be running in the Nevada Silver State Classic, a top end high speed contest held over a 90 mile stretch of public highway.

If you are doing a LOT of highway, high speed cruising, then an overdriven 5th gear is almost a necessity these days. If your application takes you further into the drag racing/hard launch arena, then the brute strength of the transmission also comes into play. Be very honest with yourself and how much power you are building into the engine and the TYPE and STYLE of driving you plan and choose your transmission accordingly....

randy

------------------
www.bossman-motorsports.com

IP: Logged

289 Rod
Journeyman

Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-10-2002 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 289 Rod   Click Here to Email 289 Rod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope when I build my engine to have 300+ hp with a 347 stroker, used as a daily driver. I am a college student that goes on the freeway constantly cruising at speeds 65+mph. I would love to be driving my car with a limitless transmission. Currently I am using a 4 speed BW T-10 and am resricted to only a healthy rpm at 70 mph yet if I want to be in the carpool or not laging on the freeways I at least need 90 mph capabilty. I know that would be easy to have with a T5 but wouldn't it be nice to see a 6 speed in a mustang at the next Auto Show instead of the usual 5 speed? That is one thought, when I am at the car show and need an edge over the others I would think this would be good for that reason as well. Plus I could put a really hugh rear gear and still have good speeds with a 6 speed. I am just more concerned about install info and how to get from a T10 to a T56 with a good plan. Thank you

------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!

IP: Logged

68stang351
Gearhead

Posts: 203
From: Savoy TX, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-10-2002 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68stang351   Click Here to Email 68stang351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
$h!t there's a lot of helpful info for me on this page!!!!! BTW can anyone give me the # for Darkhorse or D&D, I have a few questions for them. It seems that a 5speed swap is pretty popular. I can't wait 'til my 351W and T5 is in, though the T5 surely won't last too long but I guess I should have known better than to get one. (shoulda been a tremec)

------------------
Hoofbeats are louder than Heartbeats!

IP: Logged

65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 510
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-11-2002 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 289 Rod:
I hope when I build my engine to have 300+ hp with a 347 stroker, used as a daily driver.

No sense in spending the $$$ on a stroker if you're just going to make 300hp. You can make 300 easy on a 302.


IP: Logged

JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 723
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-11-2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Richmond 5 and 6 speeds. I have the 5spd and am very happy with it. The 6 spd has just a single overdrive but the gears are closer than the T56. I have been thinking of going to a 6spd down the road.

IP: Logged

289 Rod
Journeyman

Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-12-2002 03:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 289 Rod   Click Here to Email 289 Rod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 65_289:
No sense in spending the $$$ on a stroker if you're just going to make 300hp. You can make 300 easy on a 302.


That is not what I said...over 300 horsepower. Anyways I am not even close to deciding what to use as an engine. Just a goal of close to 400 horsepower and a daily driver.

quote:
Originally posted by 289 Rod:
I hope when I build my engine to have 300+ hp with a 347 stroker, used as a daily driver.

The transmission I am probably going to use is the Tremec 3550 even though ease of install is not going to be fun, the performance and reliabilty will be better than a T5. There is limited info about the T56 that I could find. I perfer to use the Richmond 6 because of its torque limits but it is too pricey.

------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!

[This message has been edited by 289 Rod (edited 04-12-2002).]

IP: Logged

MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 685
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 04-13-2002 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was looking at the richmond 6 as well, but that .5 6th on the viper t56 looks mighty nice. I could really go for cruising with 4.11s like they're 2.06s. Of course, with my general lack of funds, I very well may just end up with a tko. For now I'm sticking with the good ole tried and true toploader I already have. Better fuel economy would be nice, but I can buy a helluva lot of gasoline for $2K plus.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

IP: Logged

SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 732
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-14-2002 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
UPDATE:

I have removed the floorbrace from the trans hump.
If you recall a few companies said you could remove the brace move it back a few inches and use it for the Tremec.
Yes you can, but it still needs a little modification to work. I need about 1/4 inch more room between the floor brace and the trans. I don't know how I will get the needed clearance but it looks very do-able.

So far I can't see any reason it won't fit under the stock trans hump.

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2002, Steve LaRiviere


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Where are the M&M Members From?]

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[About M&M][Acronym Guide][Calendar of Events][Chat Room][Classified Ads] [Links]

[Members' Photos] [M&M Mug Shots] [Technical Articles][Ford Parts Number Deciphering

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [Advertise on Mustangsandmore.com] [Mustangsandmore.com T-Shirts]