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  Interesting Design consideration for 351C Headers in old mustangs.

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Author Topic:   Interesting Design consideration for 351C Headers in old mustangs.
MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 91
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 02-15-2002 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been keeping out an eye for decent headers for my 72 Mach 1 4 speed and found there is not a big selection out there. I was considering a shorty header and could not find any so I wrote the following email to this company and got an interesting response I felt I would share.

Email I sent to FPA:

If you make a 351C Shorty header for older mustangs so people do not have to worry about the 4-speed linkage problem and the powersteering box..............They will come.....
I keep reading on mustang message boards about people looking for a good 351C header that does not cause problems.
I will keep checking your site for my 72 mustang 351c-4V.

Thanks,

Chane

Reply from FPA:

Well, this is where we are at. We currently build both a 351C 2V and a 351C 4V four tube long style header. Our first goal was to try the shorty approach but after a mock up, given the head width, combined 4 speed and power steering issues, we found that the longer design would be more forgiving and of course, be more complimental to the 351 C breathing senario. Our goals were actually many in the 351C header. We listened to customers and without a doubt they were saying ,"give us max ground clearance! We did. No part of our header hangs lower than the stock oil pan ! Use a H.D. 3/8 16 gauge , 3" ball and socket collector and make sure that it will fit a C6. We did ! We also built the first prototype on a 4 speed 1970 Must with power steering and cleared the Z bar. However, not unlike several other Ford "Z" bar designs, there are 3 different Z bar designs all mostly alike but also "different'> The 4V C linkage is the most troublesome because the bottom lever of the Z bar that actuates the adj. rod to the release arm makes a loop forward and curves back. This curve runs into the header tube. Now, given the fact that all small block Fords, use the same pivot points,the Z bars with the lower lever heading straight down instead of curving forward work fine. So long story to the point, use this style Z bar or change the one you have to this configuration. Why? Because this is the best damn header on the market for those 67 to 73 Mustangs and no one else is going to build another header for these cars, period. Not enough numbers to support the the design costs and this "Z" bar snafu is not rocket science engineering to change if you even have to. This header even fits the 65/66 Mustangs without cutting the shock towers ! Side note, our new Boss 302 Header is about 4 weeks away.
Thanks,
Stan Johnson F.P.A.


Here is thier website:

http://www.fordpowertrain.com/

[This message has been edited by MASTIFF (edited 02-15-2002).]

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ccode67
Gearhead

Posts: 1275
From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-15-2002 07:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67   Click Here to Email ccode67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just ordered a set for a windsor from FPA, they should arrive early next week, talking with Stan leads me to believe they are going to be perfect, I will let you know next week how they look.

By the way, communication from Stan was excellent, he even sent me E-mail to tell me the headers have been shipped on time just like he told me when I ordered.

The questions I asked prior to ordering were answered on the spot by Stan, he didn't have to ask or look it up, he KNOWS what is going on there. Hooker and Hedman couldn't give the same answer twice on any question and the answer they did give was different from their catalogs??????

------------------
Stuart MCA #48902
M&M #1091
67 stang 5 speed, soon to be 351W
91 f-150 xlt
98 explorer xlt sohc v-6

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 29373
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2002 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is a very impressive response! Please let us know what you think when you get the headers. How much were they?

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

MCA Member # 47773

Recycle --- Restore a Classic Mustang!

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ccode67
Gearhead

Posts: 1275
From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-15-2002 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67   Click Here to Email ccode67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They were $425 plus shipping for the nickel chrome finish and $625 for ceramic coated, I couldn't fit the ceramics into my budget even though I wanted them real bad
, the total with shipping from Washington to Atlanta was $455.
Check out their web site, good pictures of the headers I'm getting, 351W in 67 stang.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 29373
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2002 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They look pretty nice. I had nickel plated headers on a '76 Capri II Blackmagic I used to have and they held up pretty well. They blued up by the head, but I think you can get something at a Harley shop to prevent that if you want.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

MCA Member # 47773

Recycle --- Restore a Classic Mustang!

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 17471
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2002 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice! Alex happy!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 400
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-15-2002 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

>This header even fits the 65/66 Mustangs without cutting the shock towers

If that's the case, it will compromise exhaust flow. I have a 351C in
a '66 fastback and use the swap headers which have one tube on each
side crossing over to the opposite side collector. To fit in the narrow
engine compartment, the tubes go straight down right at the port exit.
In the '71 to '73 model's wide engine compartment, you have the room to
make a more gentle turn at the port exit. I have no idea how much HP
this will cost.

Dan Jones

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Derrick LaRiviere
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Ontario,Canada
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 02-15-2002 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Derrick LaRiviere   Click Here to Email Derrick LaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great info on the headers. I was looking for a set of shorties for my 68 Mustang Cleveland project when working on the exhaust and nobody made them. I had an old set of hookers about 10 years old in the garage still in good shape number 1210 i think and i tried them and fit great, only because of the mods to the engine location. The pipes at cyl 2 and 3 opened up enough to sneek the steering shaft through to the rack, I was lucky there. Now i have a set of hookers on my 70 and they fit like crap. The left side is just close enough to rattle against the frame rail and that side also hangs the lowest, pretty sad. I'm just waiting for them to get rusty enough to throw them out and put exhaust manifolds on.That leads me to my boss project, i plan to lower it a couple of inches which rules out headers and i need some stock manifolds ( tons of those around ) I can see some shorty headers maybe, if they make them. Derrick

[This message has been edited by Derrick LaRiviere (edited 02-15-2002).]

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 91
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 02-15-2002 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to FPA these new Headers for the 351C do not stick down lower than the stock oil pan. I think when I have the cash to get headers, I am going to try out FPA headers for sure. I like the max ground clearance and according to them the only thing to worry about is which Z-bar you have. I am not sure about other engine and thier headers. If you have questions, Ask them, I am sure they will answer all questions.

[This message has been edited by MASTIFF (edited 02-15-2002).]

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 91
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 02-15-2002 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ccode67,

When you get your headers up and working can you please leave a thread on FPA headers so we can see how you like them. Thanks

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 716
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-16-2002 08:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sanderson makes a set of shorties they swear will fit a clev. equipped mustang.
FC-4 I think is the part #.
It is not listed on their website however.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 3689
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2002 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Derrick LaRiviere:
Now i have a set of hookers on my 70 and they fit like crap.


I guess I must be lucky for a change. The Hooker super comps I have on my 69 fit real nice. Of course I do not run a four speed. However, the next set I would like to buy are the Hedman competition headers with 2 1/8" primaries.
(I am willing to wait for them, but right now my finances wont allow me to even think about purchasing them yet )

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 91
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 02-16-2002 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Z-Bar for the 4-speed guys like myself is a real problem when it comes to finding a header that will work...........with an Automatic transmission there is no Z-bar therefor no clearance issue with it.

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ccode67
Gearhead

Posts: 1275
From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-18-2002 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67   Click Here to Email ccode67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MASTIFF:
ccode67,

When you get your headers up and working can you please leave a thread on FPA headers so we can see how you like them. Thanks


I will post as soon as I get them, hopefully today or tommorrow, will be a couple of weeks before the engine swap, will post then too.

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