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  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  '64 1/2 to '68 1/2 -- The Classic Mustang
  289 Valve Adjustment CONFUSION

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Author Topic:   289 Valve Adjustment CONFUSION
Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 239
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-15-2001 06:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss        Reply w/Quote
I know that adjusting the valve clearances was discussed here a little while ago, but I am TOTALLY confused about a few things!

CONFUSION #1:
First of all, I don't wanna adjust the rockers while the engine is running. Even though this seems to be the easiest and best way, the truth is, I can't tell when the darn rocker is clacking and when it's not! I even listened with a stethoscope! I know I'm an idiot, but I just can't tell the difference...unless I'm supposed to loosen the nut until the rocker is just about to fall off!!!

CONFUSION #2:
I decided to do the valve adjustment using the non-running method. I manually rotated my crankshaft until I reached TDC on the #1 piston. I adjusted the rocker nut of the intake valve until I could no longer turn the pushrod with my fingers. Then I turned the nut an additional 1/4 turn. I did the same thing with the #1 piston exhaust valve, and now I can turn the pushrod on the intake valve again! Is this normal? Aren't I supposed to adjust the intake and exhaust valves of a cylinder AT THE SAME TIME?

CONFUSION #2:
I think a couple of guys have said to adjust the valves of each piston, FOLLOWING THE FIRING ORDER. They have said to mark the crankshaft pulley at 90-degree intervals, starting with the #1 piston at TDC.

But my Ford shop manual has an alternative method.

First, get the #1 piston at TDC, and adjust the intake and exhaust valves on the #1 piston (once again, do I do both valves at the same time?). Then, remove the distributor cap. Rotate the crankshaft until the breaker points are on the next peak of the hexagonal distributor cam lobe and adjust the next piston in the firing order. Is this just as effective? It seems that it is to me, but when my #1 piston is at TDC, the breaker points are NOT on a peak...they are on a flat spot on the distributor cam!!! WHAT'S GOING ON?

CONFUSION #3:
When I watch my engine running with the valve covers off, I can see most of the pushrods twirling around. Some of them don't twirl around. What is correct? It seems to me that it should matter one way or the other, at least to a certain degree. Does it matter?

PLEASE HELP ME GET MY VALVES ADJUSTED! I think this is part of my delayed oil pressure problem that I discussed earlier!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-15-2001 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Andy, I'll try to make this as simple as possible. First of all all of your push rods should be spinning while the engine runs, but put that aside for now as we will correct that.
Set the valves in the engines firing order. Start with the intake. Turn the engine over by hand untill the exhaust rocker just makes contact with the exhaust valve. Turn the engine another 1/4 INCH. Set the intake rocker at this time. Next, continue to turn the engine untill the intake rocker is almost all of the way up. (same cylinder) Set the exhuast rocker arm at this time. Repeat the process in the firing order 7 more times and you are done. Your method is correct as far as how much to tighten them. Contact and then 1/4 more turn. Good luck.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 239
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-15-2001 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Turn the engine over by hand untill the exhaust rocker just makes contact with the exhaust valve. Turn the engine another 1/4 INCH.

Alex:
Thanks a lot for the helpful information! Since it is painfully obvious that I am very easily confused, I want to make double sure about a couple of things:

1) Just for my own information, when the exhaust rocker just makes contact with the exhaust valve stem, what is the relationship to that piston's TDC position? Is the piston at TDC at that point?

2) Secondly, you did mean to say turn the ENGINE 1/4 inch...not the exhaust rocker nut, correct?

I'm such a dummy about this!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 239
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-16-2001 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss        Reply w/Quote
I found this information...can someone look at it and tell me if I can use any of it? It's based on Chevy engines, but the author says that it applies to other engines; just substitute the correct firing order:

http://www.centuryperformance.com/valveadjustment.htm

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-16-2001 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Turn the engine 1/4 inch more.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

ciscokid
Gearhead

Posts: 182
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-16-2001 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid        Reply w/Quote
Hey Boss Hoss,
That web site you listed does have some very good information and you can use his "valve adjustment the quick way" procedure for a Ford. I have been adjusting valves in a similar manner for many years, but with a bit of a twist that makes it easier and faster.

His procedure calls for adjusting the intake or exhaust valve on a particular cylinder when the opposing cylinder in the firing order has the valve at "max lift". That is a major pain since you don't know where max lift is exactly, and watching the valves move is annoying and imprecise. It is not important that the valve is EXACTLY at max lift, what is important is that the valve you are trying to adjust has the lifter on the cam's base circle.

The "opposing" cylinders for the 289 are:
1 <-> 6
5 <-> 3
4 <-> 7
2 <-> 8

All that means is that whatever position piston #1 is in, piston #6 is in the exact same position in the block, but doing the alternate action in the four stroke sequence. When #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, #6 is at TDC at overlap, etc.

Let's look at where everything is when #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke using the 289 firing order:

#1: TDC Compression (TDCC)
#5: 90 deg BTC on compression
#4: BDC of intake stroke
#2: 90 deg ATC on intake stroke
#6: TDC at overlap
#3: 90 deg BTC on exhaust stroke
#7: BDC on power stroke
#8: 90 ATC on power stroke

So in this position, cylinder #2 is halfway through it's intake stroke, meaning that it's intake valve has got to be very close to being fully open. Also, cylinder #3 is halfway through it's exhaust stroke, which means that it's exhaust valve has to be very close to being fully open. So, using the "opposing cylinder" strategy, the cylinder opposite #2 is #8. That means that #8's intake lifer should be on the base circle. The cylinder opposite #3 is #5 which means that #5's exhaust lifter should be on the base circle.

OK then, we have determined that when #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, there are two valves whose lifters are on the cam's base circle and can be adjusted, one intake (#8) and one exhaust (#5). Each time we turn the crank 90 degrees, moving to the next cylinder in the firing order, two more valves can be adjusted, one intake and one exhaust. By the time we have turned the crank 720 degrees (two full turns) we have all the valves adjusted.

So what makes this easier? Well, it is really easy to find TDC on #1 using the timing pointer on the harmonic balancer. Also, almost all performance balancers have every 90 degrees of crank rotation marked on them at the very least, so it is easy to turn the crank in 90 degree increments. If the balancer is NOT marked, it is trivial to mark it yourself with a ruler and a Sharpie pen.

So the whole sequence for the 289 is:
Cyl @ Adjust Adjust
TDCC Intake Exhaust
#1 #8 #5
#5 #1 #4
#4 #5 #2
#2 #4 #6
#6 #2 #3
#3 #6 #7
#7 #3 #8
#8 #7 #1

If you notice, it is really easy to remember this pattern if you know the firing order. For every cylinder at TDC compression, you adjust the intake valve of the previous cylinder and the exhaust valve of the next cylinder in the firing order. And it does not matter WHAT the firing order is, or whose engine it is, Ford, Mopar, Chevy, whatever, as long as it is a 90 degree V8, this will work.

Have a blast.

Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 239
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-16-2001 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss        Reply w/Quote
ciscokid:
Thanks for the very helpful, detailed response! One more thing: I assume you want me to do this AFTER I have warmed the engine up to operating temperature, correct?

I also found this source for valve adjustment information, with a slightly different set of rules:

http://www.cranecams.com/master/adjustvt.htm

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-17-2001 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
If you read the Crane system you can see that it the same proceedure that I out lined. Cisco's system is fine also, just not as accurate as using the firing order method. there is no more accurate way to set them.
I learned my system from a group of guys that belong to a pretty exclusive club. The SAE!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-17-2001).]

Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 239
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-17-2001 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss        Reply w/Quote
One more thing, Moneymaker:

How much of a difference does engine temperature make when you set the valves?

I set the valves using your method after the engine had been running for a few minutes. Some have told me that the engine MUST be hot, and others have said that the engine can be ice-cold...which is correct?

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-17-2001 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
For a solid/mechanical cam, you want it to be hot so the valve stems are expanded because you adjust those to the thousandth of an inch. A hydraulic cam is much less precise.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

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