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  What is the difference between 69/70 PB boosters?

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Author Topic:   What is the difference between 69/70 PB boosters?
Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 713
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe my power brake booster is leaking and need to replace it. Im not 100% sure what year booster is on the car as Iv'e found some 70 parts here and there. (I think car was converted from drums to disc in it's life before my ownership) Basicly my car is done, iv'e called three places looking for a booster and asked what the difference is and can either a 69 or 70 booster be used. Well none of the places knew what the difference was. I even called Bendix tech without success--GRRRR!! Now im done and can't drive my car until I get a new booster, Iv'e inquired about the 69 and nobody has one on the shelf and would have to send mine out for rebuild. Turn around time SUCKS!! (4) weeks!!! You mean to tell me I have to wait another 4 weeks to drive my car??? What a bunch of BS! I have found a 70 booster but not sure it will work, anyone know???? I don't care about original looks I just want it fixed!!! I also found another problem in my system, the brand new vac. canister I just bought was a defect and had leaks around both mounts. The welds were ground down before polishing and I suspected the pin holes around the bolt holes so I submerged the can in water while blowing air through the can, sure enough air bubbles were rushing right out of the weled seams. I found that by a stroke of luck after removing the can from car to inspect and trouble shoot my brake problem. I still believe I have two fold problem, 1. can leaks, 2. the booster will not hold vac.and bleeds down slowly after using a vac. pump to test it. (new ck valve btw) The last and worst problem is removing the old booster stuffed in there next to the 528. What fun, these parts house as usual sell the parts but don't know the parts they sell. Sorry for the long post and venting but waiting 4 weeks to drive my car waiting for a booster is un-acceptable!!!

Bottom line: will either a 69 0r 70 booster work on my 69??? and what is the differences if any?
(They do have different part numbers)
Rather not have to buy after market booster and have to make new lines ect., I just replaced all of them with SS.
NO, I don't want to convert to manual brakes either.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gary, there are two types; the Bendix and the Midland. You can tell them easily by the shape.

The early one is the Midland, and the booster is shaped like a football and it has a metal band clamping both halves. It is also about 10" or so in diameter.

The later one is the Bendix, it is shaped more like two large pie plates crimped together. It's about 14" in diameter. The master cylinder sits closer to the firewall with the Bendix.

I'll see if I can find an engine compartment shot of your car.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found a pic; you have a Midland booster.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 1234
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-19-2001 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a catolog here at work from California Mustang. They show a pancake type booster that replaces either type for a 60 or 70 sold outright for $298.00. Their number is 1-800-775-0101. Part number is 2005a3. RAY

------------------
RAY . FLY THE FLAG, SHOW THE WORLD WE ARE PROUD AMERICANS!70 MACH 1 351C NOW 408 STROKER 4SPD.
86 MERCURY CAPRI 5.0 RUNS 12.86 @107 1.65 60 ft.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8 1997 MUSTANG
SHOW THE WORLD, LIGHT A CANDLE.
http://www.geocities.com/slariviere/7DMach1.html

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 1234
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-19-2001 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here I ran a locate for NOS. The C9ZZ-2005-A is for disc brakes and the C9ZZ-2005-B is for drum brakes. I was told before that you can't put a swap a 69/70 booster because the clutch brake pedal supports are different. Heres the list. RAY
Parts searched for:
C9ZZ2005A C9ZZ2005B

Quantity Dealership Contact

* 1 FREESE MOTORS INC
MONTICELLO, IA 319-465-3541
800-397-3541
1 * SOUTHSIDE OBSOLETE
FARIBAULT, MN 507-332-6789
800-866-1310








------------------
RAY . FLY THE FLAG, SHOW THE WORLD WE ARE PROUD AMERICANS!70 MACH 1 351C NOW 408 STROKER 4SPD.
86 MERCURY CAPRI 5.0 RUNS 12.86 @107 1.65 60 ft.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8 1997 MUSTANG
SHOW THE WORLD, LIGHT A CANDLE.
http://www.geocities.com/slariviere/7DMach1.html

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Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 713
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I have a Bendix brake booster, problem is finding a replacement in short orderfor a 69. I found a 70 unit in stock and need to know if that will work. Like I said I don't know from which year I have in the car now other than knowing it is a Bendix. I see two listing (part #'s)for 69 and 70, both are Bendix units. All I need to know is if can I use either year no matter which year mine is in the car. Right now the master cylinder is only 1/4" away from the towwer. any difference as in longer isn't going to fit. I'll snap a pic of it and post it in a few mins.
Here's what gets me, I use a vac. pump and attach to hose and check valve to booster, I draw 20 inches then turn off the pump, from there is bleeds down to 0 in less than 10 sec. It sounds like it is leaking at the hose connection and valve but I replaced the hose, replaced the check valve and the grommet for the booster that came with the valve. I used hose clamp too. Leak is coming from the inlet. Parts are all correct and brand new, even tried another new check valve just to make sure.
If diaphram was bad I doult it would even draw 20 inches of vac. Bad or not I want to replace the booster, that way I know that is not the problem.
Getting real PO'ed at this point

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary:
Steve, I have a Bendix brake booster

Nope. Not unless you changed it from the one in your picture.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a Midland:

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

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Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 713
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-19-2001 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pic of booster on bottom of my site:

Steve, same booster as before, I just changed out the master. Booster worked fine when I removed it so decided just to use it again.
http://howntown.aol.com/garyslight/page1.html[/URL]

http://hometown.aol.com/garyslight/page1.html

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 11-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 11-19-2001).]

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2001 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Took me long enough, but I finally found some pics of Bendix boosters:

http://www.mbmbrakeboosters.com/boosters/pics_of_9_boosters.htm

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 5518
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-19-2001 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe Ray can help me. I was under the impression that the Midland was the same in 68-9. The pic in Gary's car is different. It doesn't look like the two Midlands that I have. I went out on the bench to double check. Is there a difference between 69-70?? Steve- look in the Oct-01 issue- of the 70 Mach and tell me what that booster is, page 50-1

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RonnieT
Gearhead

Posts: 469
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-20-2001 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RonnieT   Click Here to Email RonnieT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

Looked at Gary's pictures and it is deffinatly a Bendix booster.

http://members.aol.com/garyslight/images/bendix1.jpg

Ray stated the brake/clutch support is different between 69 and 70, that is why the boosters will not interchange.

Gary have you called National Parts Depot, they list the booster in thier catalog.

------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1071
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-20-2001 04:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I`ve had 2 69 & 3 70`s. They all had the Bendix style booster. I don`t think I`ve ever seen a Midland style booster on a Mustang newer than 67-68. I know that my 69`s had a round brake proportioning valve (under the master cyl) that the 70`s did not have. Other than that I don`t know what would be different between 69 & 70 brakes (other than F hub bearings & rotors)

------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 713
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-20-2001 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have only had the Bendix type on other 69's with P valve below the master.
I still have a question about how these boosters work, basicly when the engine is turned off will the vac. be retained in the booster until next time the engine is started or pedal de-pressed? In my case after engine shut down the vac. bleeds itself off fairly quick. I can hear it pass @ or around the check valve. Valve is new and so is the valve booster gromment.
Is this normal? Seems it would have to bleed off because it's only a snug push in deal and seal of the check valve. I don't hear bleed off anywhere else around the booster inside under the dash or under the hood other than check valve area. When vac. pump is applied it will pull 20 inches constantly as long as the vac. pump is running. Still not sure booster is really bad or not.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 30756
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-20-2001 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RonnieT:
Steve,

Looked at Gary's pictures and it is deffinatly a Bendix booster.

http://members.aol.com/garyslight/images/bendix1.jpg

Ray stated the brake/clutch support is different between 69 and 70, that is why the boosters will not interchange.

Gary have you called National Parts Depot, they list the booster in thier catalog.


Damn! It says Bendix right on it!

I must be losing my mind! Maybe it's Altzheimer's...

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
Ever wonder why they call it 'dogma?'

IP: Logged

Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 713
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-20-2001 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, here's the deal with the booster from most of all the parts houses including NPD. You send yours to them to be re-built, turn around time is about 4 weeks. I'll find one somewhere as Im NOT waiting that long!!! I want a Bendix and will get the same replacement even if I have to make 100 calls.
Actually I found one after about the fifth call, they have one on the shelf and should have it here by next Mon
Still not positive mine is bad but now I won't second guess it getting a new one.
Great to have a fast car, not good not being able to stop it so new it gets. I think I'll even add an elec. vac pump into the system to make sure I have plenty of vac. for good braking everytime.

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 11-20-2001).]

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