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Author Topic:   transmission pump
project66
Gearhead

Posts: 246
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-06-2001 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for project66   Click Here to Email project66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like I tore mine up when I put the tranny in. (This is a V8/C4 in a 66).

Checked the Ford house and the part is no longer available. Then checked NAPA and (gulp) AutoZone- no listing for it. Can anyone suggest a vendor? I have a second tranny out of a I6 that could serve as a parts donor.

Second question is installation. I've never been inside a tranny but this doesn't look like that big of a deal. Anyone done it?

TIA-
JimO

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-06-2001 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What did you tear up on the pump? Any transmisson shop should be able to get you a new pump.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
My goal is to stop being such a pessimist... but that probably won't happen...

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project66
Gearhead

Posts: 246
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-06-2001 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for project66   Click Here to Email project66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve-
Not sure- tranny's still in the car.

Guess I was wondering where I could get one and whether it was something I could take a crack at installing.

JimO

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 348
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-06-2001 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like I was right after all

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franklin
Gearhead

Posts: 131
From: VA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-06-2001 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for franklin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, go to a transmission shop. They should have what you need, and may have time to give you a little advice. Try a shop that's been around awhile, and use franchise shops as a last resort.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 11-06-2001 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are easy to change. Just eight bolts and it's yours.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
My goal is to stop being such a pessimist... but that probably won't happen...

[This message has been edited by SteveLaRiviere (edited 11-09-2001).]

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RonnieT
Gearhead

Posts: 827
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-06-2001 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RonnieT   Click Here to Email RonnieT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim,

Give Full Line Transmissions a call at 355-1083, they are on N Ardenwood. For some reason they are not in the Yellow pages, but you can find them in the Baton Rouge business section. When I needed parts for my FMX they were the only shop that had them.

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Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23

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67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 488
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-07-2001 05:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just curious what is it doing i have messed up a convertor putting one in once but dont really see how ud ruin the pump?although im sure anything can be done

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Josh
67 coupe with 351c
94 Explorer
30 model A currently rustbucket
in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5

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Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 223
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 11-07-2001 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss   Click Here to Email Boss Hoss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I would also like to hear exactly what's going on. I am thinking of doing my own work swapping C-4's in my car, and I would like to hear ALL stories about possible damage! I have messed with all parts of my car, but I've always been intimidated by transmission work for some reason.

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*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

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stang106
Gearhead

Posts: 780
From: God's Country!... Port Alberni B.C. Canada
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-07-2001 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stang106   Click Here to Email stang106     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This brings up old memories. 20 years ago Roger (bfxcomet) and I were installing an automatic in his '69 fairlane and did not have the torque converter properly aligned on the input shaft. When we tightened down the tranny to the block the pressure broke the front pump! We were real careful after that.
Dave

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'70 ragtop Stang
"I live my life 16.090 seconds at a time"

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project66
Gearhead

Posts: 246
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-07-2001 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for project66   Click Here to Email project66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, unfortunately, this is the way I learn many of my lessons.

Not sure what busted, but the guy who rebuilt the tranny echoed what was said here on the list: that I shouldn't have had to use long bolts to draw the tranny in, that something was not aligned, and that I'd most likely broken the pump when I cranked the engine the first time. He also said that if he sees metal dust in the oil, he will want to go through it again and clean everything.

Will do an autopsy when I get the thing down and report back on the specifics.

Thanks guys-
JimO

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ciscokid
Gearhead

Posts: 121
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-08-2001 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is fairly easy to mess up both your transmission and converter if you don't install the converter onto the transmission properly.

There are three separate splines that must properly line up in order for the converter to be fully installed. You can see two of the splines before you install the converter, the input shaft and the stator support. These are concentric shafts, with the input shaft being the smaller diameter (and removable in the case of a C4). The stator support is fixed, it does not turn, and is actually part of the front pump. The third spline that must line up is the pump drive. On a C4, the pump is driven by the two flat areas at the end of the torque converter pump drive collar. These flat areas must engage the matching flat areas on the front pump's driven gear, which is hidden behind the seal in the front pump. This is the one that causes the problem most of the time. You can install the converter and it will feel like it is all the way into the pump when, in fact, the pump drive flats have not properly engaged the driven gear. If you try to mate the transmission to the engine with the converter improperly seated in the pump, you will cause all sorts of damage, including tearing up the pump housing and driven gear, and, even worse, crushing the converter due to squeezing it between the pump and the flexplate.

When you install the converter into the transmission you need to spin the converter while pushing it into the pump. You will feel it make a final "drop" when the converter pump drive mates with the driven gear. The distance from the transmission bellhousing/engine mating face to the base of the drive lugs on the converter should be at least as far as the distance from the back of the engine to the transmission side of the flexplate. It will actually be greater since the converter "pulls out" of the pump a small distance, usually 1/8th to 1/4" when the converter is bolted down to the flexplate.

You should NEVER have to force an engine and transmission together. They should slide together smoothly and easily, and the torque converter should slide in and out of the transmission a small amount, easily, by hand, with the bellhousing bolted to the transmission.

Another classic way of ruining a perfectly good torque converter can happen when converting a manual transmission to an automatic, or when bolting up an automatic to a rebuilt engine that was originally used in a manual transmission application. Always check to make sure that there is no pilot bearing in the rear of the crank before installing an automatic trans. The pilot bearing will interfere with the torque converter and can cause the converter to be crushed when everything is bolted down tight.

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project66
Gearhead

Posts: 246
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-09-2001 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for project66   Click Here to Email project66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whoa, Cisco-

Great post, thanks. Wish I'd read it a couple of months ago

JimO

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