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  Put the 347 on the Chassis Dyno

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Author Topic:   Put the 347 on the Chassis Dyno
kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3301
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-27-2001 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We had a Show and Shine at out club sponsor Dealership today. Me and the other brother-in -law stopped at The Performance Garage first to put the cars on the Dynojet. He went first with his original 65 GT-350 recently rebuilt motor, Comp 280S cam and a very rich carb. He pulled 211 rwhp @ 5500.

Didn't know what to expect with the 347, but I'm happy for a mild street motor. All pulls were identical, no adjustments to timing or carb, we were short on time, 311 rwhp @ 5500 and 350 ft lb @ 3300. Alot of room for improvement, but with less than 1000 miles on the motor, I'll leave it where it is for now.

Mike

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 27870
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-28-2001 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-28-2001 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those numbers sound pretty good. I will be getting my 347 done soon as well. I'm waiting for a bit because I'd like to spend a little time doing a tune on the dyno and that costs a bit more. I'm also curious to see what kind of improvement can be made by the dyno tun guy over the adjustments I make.

Does it feel there is a lot left? I am hoping for around 360-380rwhp with mine but I'm not holding my breath or anything.

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3301
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-28-2001 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jaazzy,
I was hoping for around 340, which is not that far off. The guy that runs the shop and I feel I was running out of cam. With a cam change and playing with timing and carb settings I could get there. But, my choice was a mild street motor with the 270H Comp cam. Did I mention I still get 20 mpg on the interstate.

Mike

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-29-2001 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well if you don't mind waiting for a little while you can see what happens with a larger cam when I get mine done. I was thinking that your cam was a little small. I think the 280H would have been a nice street cam. I used a slightly larger Isky cam(282H) in my last 289 and it was a great street cam. I used the Comp Cams 292H before that and it was a little too much for a daily driver.

I'll post it when it's done. Based on what several people here mentioned I need to run larger fuel line from the tank before I get it dynoed. I'm using the stock 5/16" and I don't want lack of fuel to be the limiting factor. I would hate to pay twice for the dyno tune.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 3367
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 10-29-2001 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's the normal fee to get a dyno run as-is, no adjustments?

Also, what's a 347 comprised of? Is it a stroked 302?

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-29-2001 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm guessing it varies with location but what I'm seeing around here is $75 for a baseline. The shop I was going to go to charges $375(+ parts if needed) minimum for a dyno tune. That is based on about 3 hours. In my case it would just be fuel and timing changes.

A 347 is just a 302 stroker. From comparison with my 289 it makes quite a big difference in low end torque.

quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
What's the normal fee to get a dyno run as-is, no adjustments?

Also, what's a 347 comprised of? Is it a stroked 302?


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Billgear
Gearhead

Posts: 182
From: Concord,CA
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-29-2001 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Billgear   Click Here to Email Billgear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jazzy,

I had my car dyno tuned at "The Racers Group" at Sears Point raceway. I think it cost me 250.00, we made about 20 pulls on the dyno + tuning. The dyno tech really knows his stuff! Here i there URL http://www.theracersgroup.com/dynotuning.html

Regards,
BillGear
www.289mustang.com

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-29-2001 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, I'll give them a call. That is only a 25 min drive from my house.

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-29-2001 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just gave them a call. They want $95 per hour. I figure it would be about 1.5-2 hours so that is a lot cheaper.

Bill do they have the Wideband O2 so that I can see if the fuel injection is going fat or lean at different points? Thanks

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3301
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-29-2001 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Performance Garage in downtown Nashville charged us a flat rate of $95. We have had club rental there before at $75. This included the O2 sensor.

Sig/Sam, the 347 is a 302 block bored .030" with a special crank with a 3.400" stroke and rods that are 5.400" long. The swap does require special pistons shorter in lenght than the 302 and a relocated wrist pin hole. The bottom of each cylinder has to be notched to clear the rod bolts as the crank rotates. Alot of pros and cons on the pistons and longevity of the motor. It all depends on how it was built and how hard it is pushed. The fun part is that visually it looks and fits the engine compartment no different than a 289 or 302 with 351 performance.

Mike

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 559
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-02-2001 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kcode,
I just wanted to let you know that your post of 311 RWHP with your 347 just made my day. I have been agonizing over the 270H or going a little bigger. I am putting it in a 60 over 302 so I won't have the cubes your stroked motor has but I was hoping for 280 or so at the rear wheels. I just may be able to get there from here!

------------------
Candy Apple Red
66' Coupe
Wide Ratio Toploader
2V 302 (icky!)
15" Styled Steel Wheels

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3301
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-02-2001 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sprcoop,
Brother in laws Shelby is running the Comp 280S cam with around 11.0 compression, original R model heads totally reworked by Valley Head service, Shelby intake and so on, all original Shelby stuff, old style distributor and wires. We could probably get it to around 250 rwhp with some carb work. His Air/fuel was around 9:1 across the range. Very, very rich.

Mike

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 559
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-03-2001 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kcode,
I had asked about the 282S on the $1500 1 horse per cube post and Alex had thought that it was a little too radical for a daily driver. I'm not exactly building a daily driver but I do want it to be drivable AND fun. I will have some 70' 351W heads with the smog bumps gone and looking at roller rockers so I'm thinking 350HP at the flywheel (after your post about the 311 RWHP) is pretty doable with my setup. I did see a comment somewhere about the stock fuel line being a possible bottle neck. I'll just have to build it and see.

Jerry

------------------
Candy Apple Red
66' Coupe
Wide Ratio Toploader
2V 302 (icky!)
15" Styled Steel Wheels

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-04-2001 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am wondering if the stock fuel line is a restriction for me. If it is I can't feel it. This is one of the reasons that I haven't made a dyno appointment. I would hate to spend all that money and have them say that I don't have enough fuel. I don't feel any hesitation to indicate that I need more fuel. I'm wondering if the fact that I am running higher fuel pressure(17psi) is the reason because by all accounts my motor should need more.

I used an Isky 282 Hydraulic as a daily driver cam and didn't think it was too radical but this is a very personal decision. I wouldn't want to sit in traffic everyday with my current hyro roller but other than that I could see driving it around all the time. My cam could be considered large, 238/248(.050)-.544/.573

quote:
Originally posted by sprcoop:
Kcode,
I had asked about the 282S on the $1500 1 horse per cube post and Alex had thought that it was a little too radical for a daily driver. I'm not exactly building a daily driver but I do want it to be drivable AND fun. I will have some 70' 351W heads with the smog bumps gone and looking at roller rockers so I'm thinking 350HP at the flywheel (after your post about the 311 RWHP) is pretty doable with my setup. I did see a comment somewhere about the stock fuel line being a possible bottle neck. I'll just have to build it and see.

Jerry


[This message has been edited by JAAZZY (edited 11-05-2001).]

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 559
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-05-2001 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jaazzy,
Now I see where I saw the comment about the restrictive fuel line. It was this post!!! Doh! If you are concerned about a 347 with a 280H cam looking for 360-380 RWHP I don't think I will have a problem. I'm not getting any where near that. My 600CFM Autolite 4100 probably won't be starving for fuel. The high pressure fuel pump sounds like a good idea.

I would certainly be intrested in a WAV file of your car at idle with the 280H cam. Do you have any power accessories that you need to worry about? I will have power steering (I'm really gonna catch a ration now). I think any cam with over .5 lift is large for the street. IMHO.

Kcode,
What is your head, carb and ignition setup on your 347? Also, is that C4, C6 or 4 speed? It must be matched up pretty good to dyno like that with a 270H. I hope to nearly as well with the 4100 and D0 Windsor heads.

------------------
Candy Apple Red
66' Coupe
Wide Ratio Toploader
2V 302 (icky!)
15" Styled Steel Wheels

[This message has been edited by sprcoop (edited 11-05-2001).]

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 839
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-05-2001 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I don't actually have a way to record a wav file. My cam is not the 280H though, it's a bit larger and it is a Hydraulic Roller. The 280H is 230/230(.050) - .512/.512. In my previous motor(289) I had the Isky 282H and the one before that I had the Comp Cams 292H. The Isky 282H was just a bit larger than the Comp 280H. It was 232/232-.517/.517. It idled a little rough but had decent street manners. You can always bump the idle up a bit to compensate. I had to do that with the new cam.

The only power item I had with the 282H & 292H was power steering but I ended up removing it because it just felt too loose. No issues because of the cams though. I think you would more likely have problems with something like power brakes.

quote:
Originally posted by sprcoop:
Jaazzy,
Now I see where I saw the comment about the restrictive fuel line. It was this post!!! Doh! If you are concerned about a 347 with a 280H cam looking for 360-380 RWHP I don't think I will have a problem. I'm not getting any where near that. My 600CFM Autolite 4100 probably won't be starving for fuel. The high pressure fuel pump sounds like a good idea.

I would certainly be intrested in a WAV file of your car at idle with the 280H cam. Do you have any power accessories that you need to worry about? I will have power steering (I'm really gonna catch a ration now). I think any cam with over .5 lift is large for the street. IMHO.

Kcode,
What is your head, carb and ignition setup on your 347? Also, is that C4, C6 or 4 speed? It must be matched up pretty good to dyno like that with a 270H. I hope to nearly as well with the 4100 and D0 Windsor heads.


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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3301
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-05-2001 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jerry
I tried to use as much off my old motor as possible. I used the Edelbrock heads 1.90" intakes 60cc chambers, the RPM manifold, Mallory unilite with Hyfire ignition at 14 degrees, 38 degrees total, carb is a 750dp built by Quick Fuel Technology, looks like a Holley but better. I tried to get a BG Road Demon to work, but without major work and suggestions from BG tech people, it wasn't worth it. The 750 work great. Up to 5500 the motor ran almost lean, 5500-6500 it went slightly rich, by the o2 sensor.
Trans is a 5-speed from a 90 GT.

Mike

[This message has been edited by kcode (edited 11-05-2001).]

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1449
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-14-2002 03:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sprcoop,

Did you ever get your car on the dyno with that autolite 4100? I'm wondering how well that autolite 4100 performs on a 347 stroker?!

Erik

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